Taking the plunge...

[projektio28]

Hello everyone,

I am now standing on the edge of the deep-end of the Uilleann pool, as a piper of the GHB for several years now, thinking about diving into this other world...

From doing a lot of reading on here (what you probably call 'trolling') as well as picking up some Irish whistles from people here, I have come down to two questions I have not found answers for:

1) I believe I am safe in the assumption that if I wanted to play with other Irish whistles or fiddles, that a Concert "D" half set is the way to go. With that in mind, what is the octave range on the Uilleann pipes? Is it two full octaves, from D to high D or does it fall short by a key or two of that second octave?

2) I really enjoyed reading the recent thread on "Franken-sets". But let me explain where I am having some trouble in that area.

I am almost certain that if I told you my budget range is "X-X", I would get a fairly consistent, if not slightly biased, list of the Top 3 Uilleann pipe makers who would fit my financial needs and musical requirements. (I certainly don't want to buy the "K-Mart" line of pipes, but I certainly can't afford the Rolls Royce line either)

Are most first time buyers happy and/or smart to purchase a half set (chanter, bellows, bag and drones) from one maker, or should that person piece the set together, by buying the better chanter, better bellows or better drones, from multiple makers?

Let's face it, not everyone is good at everything, so I am slightly skeptical in obtaining everything from one maker. But maybe my skepticism is unfounded and looking at a half set by, for example CJ Dixon or Pat Sky, is not a bad idea for a first timer.

Sorry for the rant, but all of you have great knowledge in this arena and I want to make a confident purchase and strong "leap" into the deep-end...

Thanks in advance!

Matt
San Diego, CA

[amckay]

Like you, I was a GHB player before moving to the upipes. My set was purchased as a half set, then put a regulators order in as soon as I got the 1/2 set. It gave me 2 years to practice before my set became a full one, plus the time to save the pennies for it.
I'd recommend this approach as regulators get in the way at first, are more potential sources of air leaks, etc. They are just an unnecessary complication if you are just starting out.
Don't skimp on the chanter, if you budget is limited, i'd recommend getting a good quality chanter as a basic set than an average 1/2 set. If you've got any future goals of playing music in a key other than D or G, get all the chanter keys added.
If you want to play session tunes, yes - a concert pitched chanter is what you want. Some chanters can do more than two full octaves, going up to the 3rd e, but these notes usually require keys or specific fingering.

[djm]

1). A chanter will normally play two full octaves. A really good reed will take you up three or four notes into the third octave (the use or need for this is questionable, but cool to have).

2). It is generally recommended to get your set from the same maker, so that everything is made to balance and work together. The significance of the Frankenset thread was that you are not necessarily constrained to use one maker if you are prepared to deal with parts that don't quite fit together or look the same.

You will get lots of conflicting opinions on all the above. That is the nature of this community - there are few rules, if any. Caveat emptor.

djm

[projektio28]

Is there any reason to get the extra keys added right away, for sharps and flats, or as a quasi-beginner am I better off waiting?

Thanks for some early and quick responses! Of course I will gladly welcome more opinions as I am told there are many here who espouse them...

Matt

[lordofthestrings]

I had a lot of your same questions when I placed my order for a 'real' set of UP's. As far as keys go, IMHO, a C nat key is really nice to have for certain. To me at least, its a lot more slick to get C nat in tune than trying to 'alternative finger' the note. I've found on my Dixon chanter that this alt. fingering changes with the weather and the reed, so having a pretty consistant note is easier than having to adjust fingering often. I know there are those who will disagree with me, but I like the luxury of the c nat key. The F nat key is also handy; I do a lot of playing with other bands (not necessarily ITM) and they do a lot of songs in C, D, and G. The F nat allows me to more easily harmonize in the key of C. There are also many tunes that have a F nat accidental note within D, and I've heard many airs that use an F nat in this context (to quasi play in B minor).

I guess it all depends on what you plan to do with the pipes, but C nat key seems the most desireable to me if you could only afford to get one key installed.

[amckay]

agree with some of your points on the c and f keys. cross fingering the c nat or doing off the knee for the f nat give a more ghostly or open sound to the notes (which have their place) but some tunes sound nicer with a softer tone that the keys give.
I find that lots of fiddle tunes use the g sharp, so i've used that key a fair bit. I'd say the least used would be the a sharp key, but i play about 4 or 5 tunes just in the irish genre that use this key... You can get yourself a high d key but using this is quite rare.

[billh]

If your budget is limited, I'd advise getting the best practice set you can afford, rather than a mid-priced half set. I don't think you'd really get a consensus on who the three or four best candidates would be, as makers. One limiting factor where the more sought-after makers is concerned is waiting time - expect >2 years in most cases; this may make a used set or starter practice set (UPB, Daye, Sky) an attractice proposition while you wait. Be advised however that resale values vary.

agree with some of your points on the c and f keys. cross fingering the c nat or doing off the knee for the f nat give a more ghostly or open sound to the notes (which have their place) but some tunes sound nicer with a softer tone that the keys give.
I find that lots of fiddle tunes use the g sharp, so i've used that key a fair bit. I'd say the least used would be the a sharp key, but i play about 4 or 5 tunes just in the irish genre that use this key... You can get yourself a high d key but using this is quite rare.

A discussion of adding keys probably should be in the FAQ list... the topic comes up a lot.

Different people will naturally have different preferences, but I would point out that the Bflat (or "a sharp" if you prefer) is quite useful when playing in D minor. Loads of tunes (many of them airs) lend themselves nicely to D minor rather than E minor, not least because of the drones. (E minor with D drones is OK too but rather a different effect).

The "high d" key seems to have originally been intended as a second octave C#, and as such has something in common with the Cnat key. On many chanters it gives a truer C# in the second octave, and a truer d3 as well.

The "high d" /aka C# key was not rare on old chanters, but G# was. William Rowsome and early Leo is likely to have it. The old flat chanters, at least when keys came into use around 1800, always seem to have had the four Cnat, C#, Bflat, and Fnat keys. Often there was also a block for the Eflat, which was not always slotted for use, so this key seems to have been optional. The G# block was absent on many of the old chanters, and when it's present the Eflat seems always to have been there too. The deluxe flat chanters also had a seventh key, the high e, which was a very short key above the C# tonehole on the front of the chanter. Leo seems not to have bothered with the high e or the Eflat, and may be the person who popularized the "one key = Cnat" convention,

So the order of preference in the old chanters seems to have been something like this:

most common: C,F,"d3/C#" (all together?)
almost always present: Bflat
optional: Eflat
occasional/deluxe: G# e3

regards,

Bill

[projektio28]

Thank you to everyone who responded. Your helpful tips helped me to finalize my decision to purchase a set, and I have made a deposit today with a maker!

I decided before I go too crazy on adding extra keys, I will simply wait until I feel I am ready for them. The maker has said adding keys doesn't take too long (a few weeks or so) in the scheme of things, and will save me a little extra cash in the meantime. Besides, it gives me more time to keep playing my Highland pipes...

Even though I have to wait until 2009 to play them, I will keep reading up on the in's and out's to get better acquainted with the pipes!

Matt

[lordofthestrings]

Congrats! Who'd you decide to go with?

[MJS]

Matt wrote:
>Even though I have to wait until 2009 to play them, I will keep reading up on the in's and out's to get better acquainted with the pipes!<

I might suggest that your waiting time would be even better spent listening, rather than reading! Forgive me if you already know this, but it makes a huge difference...find, beg, borrow, steal every recording you can of pipers, old and new, and listen to them as much as you can stand! All the things that make this instrument and its music completely different from the GHP and its repertoire will begin to imprint themselves in your mind, and may even come out under your fingers when the chanter is in hand!
Best wishes and good luck!
M

[projektio28]

I decided to go with a C.J. Dixon half set. I like the selection of materials he offered and it is well within my price range. =D

I might suggest that your waiting time would be even better spent listening, rather than reading! Forgive me if you already know this, but it makes a huge difference...find, beg, borrow, steal every recording you can of pipers, old and new, and listen to them as much as you can stand! All the things that make this instrument and its music completely different from the GHP and its repertoire will begin to imprint themselves in your mind, and may even come out under your fingers when the chanter is in hand!
Best wishes and good luck!

I totally agree! I have a fair amount of Uilleann pipe music on CD, let alone my collection of Irish/Scottish music in general. I have some old Seamus Ennis material that I enjoy a lot, but I also really enjoy Liam O'Flynn both his solo work and, of course, with Planxty!

Matt

[lordofthestrings]

I play a half set by CJ, waiting on regs from him. Here's a recent pic of mine, showing patina on the brass bits

[samiam590]

Very nice! I like the grain on the bellows. The chanter looks like it tapers---is it a narrow bore D?

[tommykleen]

It is often held that adding keys later (after the chanter reed has been tuned for the chanter by the maker) can be problematic. It seems like a small thing: a hole here, a chimney there...pretty soon your talkin' real intonation issues.

If you were raised playing classical music on typical orchestra instruments (clarinet for moi) than you may find it challenging to whip between keys (on the UP chanter) as you may be accustomed. It gives a somewhat grudging chromatic scale.

Some chanters will give a "Bflat" by covering all/most of the holes and using the C key. You could never really do this at speed though.

t

[meemtp]

A few makers do the holes for keys as standard and then plug them if no keys are specced with the chanter, thus voicing/tuning the chanter for it to begin with. Then if keys are added later all they have to do is remove the plugs and put on the keys.