Windows Vista experience

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Tyler
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Post by Tyler »

pastorkeith wrote:I have had it a week or two on a new machine.
Some things are kinda cool - but even with the 47 updates it installed upon first boot up, I still get a hard freeze every few days and have to manually reboot. Ctrl - Shift - ESC (the new CTRL-Alt-Del) dosn't work in these cases. My drivers are, as far as I can tell, up to date. Turning off the power saver stuff seemed to cut down on this.

pastorkeith
do that, and also turn off the gunk that eats up your ram...(the eye candy, turn it all off; you'll see an immediate performance jump), then use your readyboost. :D
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Post by Loren »

Thanks everyone, you've convinced me to replace my aging ibook G3 with another Mac when the time comes :lol:

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Post by Innocent Bystander »

Linux! :twisted:
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Post by Brian Lee »

Have it on my new machine: Quad core 2.3GHz AMD Phenom with 3Gb of DDR RAM. Apart from a slightly sluggish graphics card (which is a 256 Mb card) on certain intensive applications, the machine as a whole has been rock solid. Boot up is the fastest I've seen on ANY platform, at something about 20-25 seconds. I haven't used the memory boost feature yet, but so far everything else seems to run just fine. Being a graphics nut on the side, and doing a bit of design here and there, I personally like the new eye candy with vista as well. :) Entirely a personal preference there though.
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Post by fearfaoin »

Loren wrote:Thanks everyone, you've convinced me to replace my aging ibook G3 with another Mac when the time comes :lol:
Macs are not immune from OS hell, sadly. I'm still afraid to upgrade from
Tiger to Leopard. Apparantly, clean installs go well enough, but upgrades
can get messy. Also, some of Apple's design desisions were criticised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5#Criticisms

Actually, it was kind of refreshing. I was used to Apple users being way too
forgiving of Apple, unwilling to speak ill of the company. But, with Leopard,
we saw quite a few vocal detractors in the Mac Blogosphere (Macoshpere?).
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Post by buddhu »

Tyler wrote:
pastorkeith wrote:I have had it a week or two on a new machine.
Some things are kinda cool - but even with the 47 updates it installed upon first boot up, I still get a hard freeze every few days and have to manually reboot. Ctrl - Shift - ESC (the new CTRL-Alt-Del) dosn't work in these cases. My drivers are, as far as I can tell, up to date. Turning off the power saver stuff seemed to cut down on this.

pastorkeith
do that, and also turn off the gunk that eats up your ram...(the eye candy, turn it all off; you'll see an immediate performance jump), then use your readyboost. :D
First thing I did when I got my new laptop a few months back was switch off all the stupid stuff. As if Windows isn't big and slow enough without 3D effects and font-smoothing... Grrr.

The instant extra RAM thing is a neat idea. That's the only good thing I have to say about Vista. I didn't like Windows 3.1, 95, 98, NT, 2000 or XP. I don't like Vista either. But the sad fact is that hardware manufacturers write more and better device drivers for Windows than they do for Linux, and in the UK, Mac is nowhere near as well supported as it is in the US.

There is just more software and hardware that works with Windows (I use "works" in a theoretical sense here).

I've also heard tell that you can still get a blue screen of death with Vista. I've not had that yet, but I'm sure it won't be long. Never took long with any of its predecessors...
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Post by JordanII »

I am a Linux user and have Vista (NOT as my main OS... on a secondary computer) it's AWFUL! Compared to Linux there are NO effects and it runs slow and eats the system. it is TERRIBLE! :P If you think the effects are even kind of cool take a look at Compiz: http://compiz.org/Home/Screenshots
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Post by Wanderer »

Windows has always made their latest OS work best on top-of-the-line machines...When 98 came out, when 95 came out, when 2000 came out, everyone complained what a resource hog they were. We used to say Windows 95 was the quickest way to turn a Pentium into a 386.

A year or two from now, these kinds of complaints will be moot. When you have the hardware and memory for it, Vista runs just fine.

Sure, you CAN get an os that isn't as much of a resource hog. Heck, I can go back to MS-DOS 5.0 if I'm that worried about it. But I'm not :) My machine handles vista, and so it suits me just fine. It's a good strategy for Microsoft, because it gives the OS a little more shelf life.
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Post by Ronbo »

JordanII wrote:I am a Linux user and have Vista (NOT as my main OS... on a secondary computer) it's AWFUL! Compared to Linux there are NO effects and it runs slow and eats the system. it is TERRIBLE! :P If you think the effects are even kind of cool take a look at Compiz: http://compiz.org/Home/Screenshots
The only problem with Linux is that you actually have to learn how to USE it. Not something most people are prone to want to do. :D If you want to compare operating systems, Mac people are the ones who like their steak rare, with a warm center and their martinis shaken, not stirred. Windows folks are just happy to get a hamburger with both parts of the bun. Linux folks, on the other hand, prefer to butcher the steer themselves, and cook it their way.
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Post by buddhu »

I love Linux. I used to run SuSe as my main box. Unfortunately, every laptop I ever tried with Linux had display adaptor driver issues and I work with a laptop mostly.

It can be fine if you run stuff in isolation, but when you work in a Windows environment with an IT dept who are all MS fans... well, you just can't win. They claimed they couldn't get me connected to the network for a start.

Also, a lot of the software I use (in collaborative projects with Windows users) isn't there for Linux - Adobe Premiere Pro, for example.

It's a great OS, and I am a big open-source fan, but for some users it is not supported well enough by drivers and software to be a real option for serious use. For that reason, I am stuck with Windows - which I don't like.

As for Linux with effects... Why the hell bloat and slow down a small, fast OS by adding a load of pointless effects? That's for kids and gamers (no offence, Chris). If you're trying to get some work done you don't need frills and nonsense taking up system resources.

And if you're not working, why spend so much time in front of a computer?

Which reminds me, I should be working...
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Post by buddhu »

Ronbo wrote:...The only problem with Linux is that you actually have to learn how to USE it. Not something most people are prone to want to do. :D If you want to compare operating systems, Mac people are the ones who like their steak rare, with a warm center and their martinis shaken, not stirred. Windows folks are just happy to get a hamburger with both parts of the bun. Linux folks, on the other hand, prefer to butcher the steer themselves, and cook it their way.
Nah, that's not a problem. That's a good thing!
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
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Post by Tyler »

Wanderer wrote:Windows has always made their latest OS work best on top-of-the-line machines...When 98 came out, when 95 came out, when 2000 came out, everyone complained what a resource hog they were. We used to say Windows 95 was the quickest way to turn a Pentium into a 386.

A year or two from now, these kinds of complaints will be moot. When you have the hardware and memory for it, Vista runs just fine.

Sure, you CAN get an os that isn't as much of a resource hog. Heck, I can go back to MS-DOS 5.0 if I'm that worried about it. But I'm not :) My machine handles vista, and so it suits me just fine. It's a good strategy for Microsoft, because it gives the OS a little more shelf life.
Your OS can have shelf life without outstripping machines that M$ stated very clearly and specifically that Vista would have no problems running on.
The fact that Vista, according to M$, was supposed to work on the everyday machine right out of the box with 100% of its features turned on bothers me to the n'th degree.
I specifically requested extra RAM with my most recent laptop because I knew Vista would be a pig in the mire without it, and quite frankly my machine opperates at what M$ claimed would be an average level despite having 2g of RAM with all the doodads turned off. Now, according to Microsoft, I should be able to get these results with all the doodads turned on, but that's just not the case. Like I said before, there's more than enough room for improvement; IMHO, prolly more than XP ever had.
And quite frankly, one doesn't need a Jesuscomputer to get that kind of eye candy; look at what some people are doing with gentoo, it's gorgeous and completely capable of running on less than a gig of ram.

Now, you say vista runs just fine on your unit, but is your unit what the average computer user goes down to best buy and picks up? I'm betting not. MS didn't pay attention to what average joe computer user actually needed in an OS; no, they made every attempt to throw a nuke at OSX and ended up shooting the average end user in the foot, and let's be honest, you and I are most certainly not the average end user. We know very well what we're doing and how to make our operating system do what we want it to do, but average joe computer user doesn't; he doesn't have the time, if not the inclination, to become a power user. A truly good operating system would work with what the average user is buying, and vista does not in many cases. How much has truly changed about the features of the average joe computer user's computer purchasing options in the last two years? Not a whole heck of a lot. My five year old laptop came with a 1.8 ghz processor and 1 gig of ram. They still offer pretty much the same damn computer at the store five years later, in a shiny new case with a higher definition screen and a DVDRW combo drive. My computer was certainly not state of the art when I bought it; I bought it at Best Buy for just shy of $1k, because that's all I had to spend at the time. I could have bought a boutique laptop and had a stellar performance machine that would still be viable another two years from now for under another grand, but I didn't need it.
Average joe computer user is buying computers with specs very similar to ones offered five years ago. Dropping an a-bomb of an OS on the market has been slow to change that. During the year-plus that Vista has been on the market, the market has indicated that people are going to buy according to their needs, and that the category called 'needs' doesn't neccisarily include extra expense for optional equipment to facilitate the switch to a new quirky OS.
There's nothing wrong with designing an OS for what technology will come down the pipe in the future, however, making that programming work properly with what the average user has or can be offered is important too, and vista has aptly demonstrated why. What M$ has done with Vista has done is most certainly not good business; if it was, why would manufacturers suddenly be offering downgrades to XP or other OSs some months after Vista debuts? This is not making MS any dough... Why, for as small a chunk of the market as they have, would Apple experience their largest increase in market share in the company's history? Between the release of vista and today, Apple has taken a bigger bite (however small that bite might be) out of MS than they ever have before. Macs have had more anual "converts" since the release of Vista than ever before as well. Many if not most of those who switch to apples state that dissatisfaction with MS and Vista as impetus for their switch. This is not good for MS, no matter how small a differece it might be. It might be nominal now, but lets say, just for sake of argument, that Vista doesn't end up getting its act together the way XP did; will more users be driven to Apple? It's a distinct possiblility.
Before vista was released, I never once had someone ask during casual conversation if I knew anything about Linux, now the average question I get from friends and family about Linux is "What do you know about Linux and would it be feasable to switch to it from vista."

I'd be willing to bet that even a year from now we'll still see stores selling basic average-joe computers that will just barely run vista. Another year, and yes, the very idea may well indeed be moot, because either what the average joe computer user has available at a reasonable price will have caught up to what vista requires to run properly or there'll be another OS coming down the pipe...hopefully M$ will do it properly that time around.
Quite frankly, I'd rather wait a year or two longer for a relatively bug-free OS that will run on what is available instead of trying to force a market upgrade. That's exactly what should have happened with vista; it should have stayed in beta form in R&D for another year. If M$ would have spent the last year polishing their development of Vista instead of trying to beat OSX to the punch, Vista could have been a truly great operating system, and it most certainly would have knocked a blow to OSX, but as it stands, it's just mediocre even with a years worth of updates.

anywhooo...
</rant>
Last edited by Tyler on Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Tyler »

Ronbo wrote:... Mac people are the ones who like their steak rare, with a warm center and their martinis shaken, not stirred. Windows folks are just happy to get a hamburger with both parts of the bun. Linux folks, on the other hand, prefer to butcher the steer themselves, and cook it their way...
:lol: bwahahahahahaaa :lol:
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Post by Wanderer »

Don't get me wrong, Tyler. I'm no MS fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. I was just making the observation that the Vista rollout really is not much different in terms of creativity, completeness, bugs, and system requirements being at the high end of the spectrum than any previous version.

Whenever MS puts out a new Windows version, it's the same complaints, every time. By now, it shouldn't be a surprise.
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Post by buddhu »

Wanderer wrote:...Whenever MS puts out a new Windows version, it's the same complaints, every time. By now, it shouldn't be a surprise.
Not so much a surprise as a tradition. :D

One day Microsoft will put out a reasonably priced, well tested, robust, market-ready product. The bemused silence will be deafening.
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
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