C/C# on my Olwell Pratten

[Cork]

...cocus is reccing a Delrin flute. Life is amazing.

:-D

[AaronMalcomb]

I've been told that Cnat is tricky no matter what the fingering and that a good embouchure is the real key to getting it strong and in-tune (as with any note!).

This point bears repeating.

[Cork]

...I've been told that Cnat is tricky no matter what the fingering and that a good embouchure is the real key to getting it strong and in-tune (as with any note!)...

The usual flute fingering for Cnat is given as 0XX 000, which allows for the easiest Cnat, and one which is pretty much in tune, but, perhaps those who could be less than satisfied with the sound of that fingering could prefer either 0X0 XX0 or 0X0 XXX (or as Denny said: 0X0 XX?), which truthfully does need to be slightly "lipped" in, but don't worry, for that really is easy to do.

Tintin, however, did make a great case for Cnat as 0XX 000, and thank you, Tintin!

[Cathy Wilde]

I'm going to make one more pitch for OXX OXX, being as I got it from a guy who I'd say has pretty much mastered an Olwell Pratten. It also works nicely on mine. And in the bargain, it makes life for C-D taps very easy; just tap your right index finger and Bobsyer.

Trust me. It won't hurt a bit.

[LorenzoFlute]

on my flute (bansuri=huge holes) i'm very confortable with DOO OOO

[dave shapiro]

C nat- i normally use OXX OOO, for short notes especially. on my (keyless) olwell, the OXO XXX fingering has a lovely tone, but if played normally is sharp, and needs a big lip change to get it down to pitch, so i only use it for the odd long note.

on my flute, OXX OXX can be layed into quite hard without going sharp, and has, for me, a darker tone.

C# - OOO OOO is flat on many flutes, including the best ones. michael hynes once told me he uses (my memory is fuzzy here) OOX XOO or one of these 2 fingers - maybe rob sharer could say - on his murray. i find that OOX XOO works the best for me in terms of pitch, and improves the sound of the note too!

[beowulf573]

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions. I got distracted by a flat tire on my wife's car...

I'm going to go through the different fingerings tonight and see if any work better. Most of my problems I'm sure can be attributed to a weak embouchure, or least a not very strong one. I'm just going to have to work through it the best I can.

One thing I haven't developed a knack for is lipping in a note to bring it into tune. I don't have the best ear and have problems, certainly when in a session, telling how far off I am.

Part of this can also be that I'm developing a better ear am noticing issues that have been there all along. Which is a good thing.

[ChrisCracknell]

And a C-Nat Thumb hole really isn't hard to use as long as your thumb is already somewhere near where it should be. Gives a perfect C-Nat, allows you to raise the C# by venting the thumb, and it still allows all of the other fingerings as well if you want particular tone colours. And the flute is still keyless! Boehm players will love it.

Only downside is if your hold on the flute is unsuitable and you don't want to change, or if you are worried about resale value. And spit can dribble out of the hole - but it does that with the other holes anyway...

The location of the hole should be tested with your personal hold before the hole is drilled. Mine are two thirds of the way around the flute, i.e. more towards me when I am playing. Get someone competent to add the hole especially with a quality flute like an Olwell (get the man himself to add it?).

If you are unsure then try and get your hands on a flute with such a hole to try.

Just my tuppence worth...

Chris.

[Rob Sharer]

C# - OOO OOO is flat on many flutes, including the best ones. michael hynes once told me he uses (my memory is fuzzy here) OOX XOO or one of these 2 fingers - maybe rob sharer could say - on his murray. i find that OOX XOO works the best for me in terms of pitch, and improves the sound of the note too!

Yep, Hynes uses OOX XOO for a sustained C#. Most of these cross-fingerings need a bit of lipping up/down to get them just right, but that's a skill everyone should possess - I find the more skillful a player is, the less he/she is inclined to complain about the intonation of the instrument itself. Cheers,

Rob

[flutefry]

Just a comment on baroque flutes. Skillful composers chose the key signature to obtain the desired tone colour, depending on the ratio of of veiled=cross-fingered notes to clear notes. They also modulated from the home key when they wished to change the tone colour within movements.

The trick is realizing that those feeble Ab/G# and F nat, and the flat F# are chances to add colour rather than being defects. (And just be happy you aren't playing the renaissance flute.....)

I strongly agree with Tintin. I think the ideal is to play the pitch you want for the effect you want, blue or bent, or spot on, strong and clear, or veiled. Bend the flute to your will, and not the other way round.

Best,
Hugh

[norcalbob]

Just when I was beginning to get dialed in on Cnat using OXO XXO, I now have this to consider:

Eddie is getting on well with OXX XOX, and Cork thinks 0XX 000 sucks and likes OXO XXO or, along with Jem approves of OXO XXX, but is impressed with Tintin's nice argument for OXX OOO which Tintin feels has Irish charm, and Cathy strongly suggests John Shelton's recommendation of OXX OXX, and Chris says just make it easy and get a Cnat thumb hole but be prepared for spit dribbling out of it.

You folks are sure making it simple for a newby...

[Denny]

just pick the one that you like on your flute....

oh, and don't tell anybody

[rforbes]

Listen to the ways pipers manipulate that particular note; having its timbre (and even intonation) stand out a bit from the rest of the scale gives the music pathos, and is very much part of the Irish flute sound. C is the Irish blue note.

Speaking of piping ornaments, slipping the index finger off the hole to slide up from B to some indefinite C/C# sounds great on the flute IMHO

Rob

[norcalbob]

The veiled sound of the oxx ooo Cnat is one of its charms and a reason to use it, not a deficiency to overcome. Listen to the ways pipers manipulate that particular note; having its timbre (and even intonation) stand out a bit from the rest of the scale gives the music pathos, and is very much part of the Irish flute sound. C is the Irish blue note.

I decided to really explore these fingerings for myself with my Copley while watching a chromatic tuner just to see how sharp or flat each one was for me. Then I played up and down the scale with my eyes closed while trying to maintain the same volume and intonation for each note stopping on the Cnat to look at the tuner to see which fingerings were more in tune for me.

As it turned out, to my surprise actually, the OXX OOO and OXX OXX were the best in this respect being right on pitch or just a few cents sharp or flat. The OXX XOX was the next closest, but OXO XXO and OXO XXX were significantly sharp for me, and I had trouble lipping these two onto pitch. The rub for me is that these last two fingerings sound more clear and less "veiled" to my ear. However, taking into consideration what Tintin has to say about the "veiled beauty" of the OXX OOO in ITM, I'm going to try it out on some tunes in the next few days and see how I like it.

Thanks for that bit of insight, Tintin.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

I'm so surprised someone didn't recommend the half-hole Cnat yet.....
I sometimes use that one in the second octave.... quick and simple

I am more in love with my Cnat key though..

Just a thought

M