High C natural?

intrepidduckling · Post by **intrepidduckling** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:45 pm

Hello.
I've been lurking for awhile, but this week am de-lurking apparently.

So here's my question
Is there some magic way to play a high C natural on a low D whistle? If I try I can play C sharp and even high D...but I can't make C natural sound like anything other than a train whistle...

Thank you!!!

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:54 pm

Half-hole it. Seriously.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:04 pm

Bloomfield wrote:Half-hole it. Seriously.

Yeah, that's the only way I know.

scheky · Post by **scheky** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:06 pm

Listen to Bloom. Even if you have a whistle that can play cross-hole easily, learning to half hole is a great skill to master.

Learn it now.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:58 am

What Bloomfield and scheky said.

Often the high c'-nat will be the highest note in the melody with a b leading into it, so half-holing works very well. You can even slide in and/or out of the note to soften the blow.

For the cross-fingering, try playing a high d' then moving down to the c'-nat. That helps to keep the whistle in the same overtone state. There was a recent discussion about cross-fingerings for c'-nat and other 3rd octave notes here:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=55030

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:09 am

scheky wrote:Listen to Bloom. Even if you have a whistle that can play cross-hole easily, learning to half hole is a great skill to master.

Learn it now.

I totally agree. In addition to giving you a good C nat on any whistle, the same skill will allow you to play a good G#, Bb,Fnat,Eb etc. This opens up a whole pile of new tunes and genres of music.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:34 am

Follow the link MTGuru gave - that thread is pretty comprehensive. Personally, I prefer not to half-hole unless utterly unavoidable, which it never is for C nat in either octave.

scheky · Post by **scheky** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:08 am

Jem, while that will serve you well on the flute (with keys) and certainly will solve the specific problem asked, it also will limit the asker in the future when they try to play those accidentals that crop up every now and again (especially outside the realm of ITM).

Since it's a problem that can specifically be fixed by half-holing, and given that it's a very useful thing for a whistle player to know, it serves that biting the bullet now and learning the skill will kill two birds with one stone.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:57 am

Schecky, I only said I personally don't like it and avoid it (half-holing). I didn't even offer advice beyond that here (though I have on other occasions). However, I stand by what I said, and I whistle nearly as much as I flute and, although a proponent of keyed flutes over keyless, I don't think that I speak from a particularly flutey perspective, keyed or otherwise, when discussing whistles/whistle technique (although a heck of a lot is the same.....). I also don't see it as a "problem" - learn and practice the cross fingerings, "problem" becomes norm. (Alright, you could say the same for half-holing, but that is much harder to do consistently and cleanly.)

Sure, it's handy to be able to half-hole and there are a few dedicated (mad) souls who practise it to the nth degree and do virtuosic things with it. I'm not suggesting anyone should "limit themselves", but I do suggest it ought not to be the primary way to deal with those particular muscial challenges. Mostly IMO and FWIW, I think (and advise) that it is better to avoid it in general as, where available, cross fingering is better. The only notes on most standard D whistles incapable of useful cross fingering are F nat and Eb, which do have to be half-holed if they crop up. Bb cross fingers quite well (and accessibly) on most whistles in both octaves, upper G# is usually fine too, and lower G# is often OK cross fingered. It can very rarely be useful to tap-half-hole a G# instead. C nat, I think not - it's awkward and the cross fingerings are good (once you settle on the right one for the particular whistle).

Also FWIW, I play other Celtic and even some English music on whistles as well as flutes, but all trad folk. They all make very similar technical demands, though some of the Welsh stuff really isn't whistle friendly. Like most of us, I shift whistles when necessary rather than trying to play in awkward keys on the D. In 30+ years involvement with the music, I've found very little need to half-hole. Alright, I don't try to play jazz or hymn tunes or whatever. I still think that picking the right key whistle and cross fingering occasional accidentals as far as possible ultimately works (and sounds) better. I certainly don't exclude half-holing totally, nor object to it for special effects, but I see it as an ancillary technique for odd situations whereas cross fingering is "more advanced basic" in my book. C nat cross fingering is actually "early basic". Advanced multiple half-holing for non trad style pieces is very impressive and I don't knock it at all, but that wasn't the drift here!

intrepidduckling · Post by **intrepidduckling** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:20 pm

Thanks everyone...I'll mess around and see what works best(and be glad I have the house to myself). I'm ok at half holing on my high one, but I've never tried it with pipers grip.

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:51 pm

Hmmm, I dunno about LOW whistle, but on a regular one the high C natural can be played using:

0XX-XX0

Maybe that doesn't work on low models.

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:29 pm

brewerpaul wrote:
scheky wrote:Listen to Bloom. Even if you have a whistle that can play cross-hole easily, learning to half hole is a great skill to master.

Learn it now.
I totally agree. In addition to giving you a good C nat on any whistle, the same skill will allow you to play a good G#, Bb,Fnat,Eb etc. This opens up a whole pile of new tunes and genres of music.

I'm on this bench. Half holing is much easier than folks tend to think, and works on any whistle.

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:35 pm

On my MK low D I can easily get a second octave C nat with this fingering:
oxoxxo. I do usually half hole. Cyril.

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:00 pm

brewerpaul wrote:
scheky wrote:Listen to Bloom. Even if you have a whistle that can play cross-hole easily, learning to half hole is a great skill to master.

Learn it now.
I totally agree. In addition to giving you a good C nat on any whistle, the same skill will allow you to play a good G#, Bb,Fnat,Eb etc. This opens up a whole pile of new tunes and genres of music.

Don't those involve different fingers on different sized holes?

Bothrops · Post by **Bothrops** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:04 pm

I.D.10-t wrote:
brewerpaul wrote:
scheky wrote:Listen to Bloom. Even if you have a whistle that can play cross-hole easily, learning to half hole is a great skill to master.

Learn it now.
I totally agree. In addition to giving you a good C nat on any whistle, the same skill will allow you to play a good G#, Bb,Fnat,Eb etc. This opens up a whole pile of new tunes and genres of music.
Don't those involve different fingers on different sized holes?

Sure