Low octave problems

samiam590 · Post by **samiam590** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:59 pm

As a soon-to-be-piper I know I should be learning whistle as well. I have a Generation c whistle and some Feadogs in D. There is one problem with all of them---the low octave is weak and wants to jump to the second octave. I suspect it may be my wind pressure. I play some big ol' instruments otherwise (sousaphone, bassoon, baritone sax...) that make me want to blow massive amounts of air into any instrument that touches my lips. Question is, would it be my wind pressure or is it a mechanical failure of the whistles? I know one of the feadogs is a bit leaksy. But the chance of all 4 being weak low-octaved leads me to believe it's me. Maybe I should try the tweaks on the main Chiff site...? Help/advice is appreciated

Bothrops · Post by **Bothrops** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:02 pm

Yes, I certainly think that the problem should be yours. I've a Feadog in D as well. It requires little air in the first octave, so I have to blow gently to not reach the 2nd octave.

samiam590 · Post by **samiam590** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:04 pm

As I thought. I can get to the 3rd and a 4th (ouch) octave pretty easily, so I guess I'll just have to tone down my breath.

Bothrops · Post by **Bothrops** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:26 pm

samiam590 wrote:As I thought. I can get to the 3rd and a 4th (ouch) octave pretty easily, so I guess I'll just have to tone down my breath.

Sure!
To reach the lower notes of the third octave is quite difficult to me. I can't think in reaching the highest notes! (by the way, it really hurt my ears the notes of the third octave!

).
You should practice to blow much gently into the whistle. I don't think that all your whistles are bad!

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:26 pm

samiam590 wrote:As I thought. I can get to the 3rd and a 4th (ouch) octave pretty easily, so I guess I'll just have to tone down my breath.

It makes my ears hurt just reading what you wrote. I won't comment on the plausibility of playing a complete third octave on a cheapie; not to mention a fourth octave.

BTW, I play pipes and Irish flute and have considerable wind power. Some high Ds with sufficient back pressure like Overtons and Reyburns have strong lower octaves, plenty of volume and don't "slip" into the second octaves.

Cheers, Cyril

samiam590 · Post by **samiam590** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:32 pm

I won't comment on the plausibility of playing a complete third octave on a cheapie; not to mention a fourth octave.

I took a tuner to the thing tonight just for kicks and it turns out i was just overblowing some stuff and not really getting a 4th octave as i thought I was, just some of the lower 3rd octave stuff. Didn't really look before I leapt so to speak, sorry about that.

I don't know why I lapsed in my memory about the harmonic series, hehe. Why would I think they overblew in octaves?
Thanks for the recs on the two brands. I think the bigger back pressure would be a nice comforting thing for me, as someone who's sued to fighting with a double reed.

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:21 am

samiam590 wrote:
I won't comment on the plausibility of playing a complete third octave on a cheapie; not to mention a fourth octave.
I took a tuner to the thing tonight just for kicks and it turns out i was just overblowing some stuff and not really getting a 4th octave as i thought I was, just some of the lower 3rd octave stuff. Didn't really look before I leapt so to speak, sorry about that. I don't know why I lapsed in my memory about the harmonic series, hehe. Why would I think they overblew in octaves?
Thanks for the recs on the two brands. I think the bigger back pressure would be a nice comforting thing for me, as someone who's sued to fighting with a double reed.

Hey, to ear is human. Take care and good luck finding what you need. And BTW, welcome to the forum. Cyril

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:09 am

If you're classically trained to use a lot of distinct tonguing, that may be part of the problem. That inital burst of air will pop the notes into the upper octave very easily. Try playing with no tonguing at all for a while, then add some back gradually if you like (whole topic there

)

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:11 am

Part of the trouble could be you overblowing the whistles (as they do have to be blown gently in the 1st register) but also part of the problem could be the whistles.
As has been covered in detail on other threads here, the mass-produced whistles with moulded plastic tops (Generations and their ilk) all suffer from hit-and-miss (or nonexistant) quality control.
From personal trial and the reports of others it seems that around 5% of mass-produced "cheapies" are excellent, around 5% horrid, and the rest in the middle. Find a place where you can try a large sampling of whistles and look for that one-in-fifty great player, the whistle with strong full low notes and easy, sweet high notes and good voicing and intonation between the octaves. They do exist.
Or, switch to a type of whistle that's intended to be blown at a higher pressure, like some Overton-style whistles and even Susatos.
By the way, the range used in the traditional Irish wind instrument repertoire is typically from "bottom D" to B in the 2nd register. A few tunes, very few, go up to high C. (One reason for this is that traditional fiddlers only play in 1st position.) Playing in the 3rd register is spending time doing something that these instruments were not designed to do, and playing notes you'll never encounter in the traditional repertoire anyway.

samiam590 · Post by **samiam590** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:38 pm

I know to stay away from tongueing---I just can't sustain the low notes.

I don't know of anywhere near me that sells a variety of whistles, but I'll look. The brand recs are much appreciated, as I think a whistle is a good investment to make along with my pipes. You know, for the days when the weather isn't conducive to piping (it gets DRY down here.).
I wasn't actually spending any time on the 3rd octave, I was just saying that with little effort I could break into it.
Edit: Is there any sort of tweaking I could do to my Feadog to increase the resitance or back pressure?