McCallums/Dunbars/MacLellan/Pettigrew

[mukade]

Here are some interesting videos of the McCallum pipes.

http://www.scotlandontv.tv/?channel=Cul ... 380_SMG382
http://www.scotlandontv.tv/?channel=Cul ... 380_SMG383
http://www.scotlandontv.tv/?channel=Cul ... 380_SMG384

And one from the McPherson workshop.
http://www.scotlandontv.tv/?channel=Cul ... 380_SMG563

Mukade

[ausdag]

Thanks Mukade, very interesting viewing.

DG

[sjcavy]

ok, well I have been in this area for a while. Let me help you out. I am a tinkerer(meaning I like to screw my instruments up and then put them back together again,LOL) I also am a nerd when it comes to things I love.

I have studied the GHB since I ever dreamed.

I'll let you in on a couple secrets...

McCallum does not age their woods correctly, in fact, sometimes they are not even aged for the right amount of time. That means that the wood is going to move after you buy it. THATS BAD. I have not seen a McCallum I've liked.

I will readily admit that there might be some out there that play well, but I haven't seen them.

I will also admit that I, at the tender age of 20, have played way too many sets for my own good.

Dunbar's are cheaper than most, but they are one of the best pipes on this planet. 'nuff said.

Now my favorites.

MacLellans.

Beautiful in every way, the drones have a huge tuning range, meaning they are easy to reed. They are loud, like old world henderson loud.

Roddy MacLellans chanters play pretty well too.

My original set of MacLellans is going to be shipped out in May sometime and cost less than a set of McCallums with the same amount of jewelry.

think......$1500.

Roddy is also one of the funniest and nicest people I have ever had the chance to talk to.

if you can afford it, Dave Atherton has pipes that I hear while I'm sleeping and drool at.

[AaronMalcomb]

McCallum does not age their woods correctly, in fact, sometimes they are not even aged for the right amount of time.

What's the correct way? What is the minimum amount of time? How long does McCallum age their wood?

I will readily admit that there might be some out there that play well, but I haven't seen them.

Iain Speirs, Bruce Gandy and Alex Gandy have been playing McCallums with good results. Strathclyde Police have been playing McCallum chanters in their best competitive seasons since McLellan's reign. And all of last season Willie McCallum was playing the new McC² chanter. Naturally these players will do exceptional things with just about any instrument but they also wouldn't waste their time on it if they weren't totally satisfied with the results.

The only two complaints I have about McCallum pipes is I noticed a glob of glue on the interior of the drone cap on a set of AB1 pipes I tied a bag onto. I also don't like the reed seats on the drones. Several sets have come through my hands where I could not seat the reeds very stably. I would probably get the reeds seats threaded if I had a set and get ring caps and bushings on the drones.

But they sound pretty good. Even one of the sets with wobbly drone reeds still had a nice tone and it just had Ezeedrones in the pipes-- no cane or carbon tongues or anything. And I like the finish they put on the wood. I dislike a varnished finish and like the satin finish that McCallums and Naills have. The next chanter I get will probbaly be the McC²

[sjcavy]

granted, but you must understand that most pipe bands higher than grade 2, and even most grade 2's for that matter, customize their chanters. They might be using the McCallum base, but the finished product sounds nothing like the stock piece. And as for the pro pipers that use McCallums, let me ask you this.

If you knew that you were going to be giving away/selling a set of your pipes to one of the better pipers in the world, would you unknowingly/knowingly give him a crappy set, or would you have someone hand pick the wood, and then work your magic.

As for the right amount of aging, thats a different story.

Aging can go anywhere from 3 years to as long as it takes. BUT when you begin to bead and comb a piece of wood that is still GREEN, you should rethink your place in the business.

If you want a real lesson, go talk to Dave Atherton, who was the master craftsman of Kron bagpipes for years, and now lives close to me. Send him an email, and he will gladly walk you through the whole process.

Ringo Bowen is also another person who will gladly walk you through the whole process. Roddy MacLellan, even the guys at Sinclare or Dunbar will explain it to you. McCallum, I fear, did not have time to explain their history, or take on bagpipes, which does not bode well for them.

I am not going to buy a cheeseburger for the same price as a steak, when I could just as easily have the steak.

[sjcavy]

also....

kiln drying is NOT good. Shelf drying in a controlled environment is the correct way.

[AaronMalcomb]

I'm not taking McCallum's side or any such but I'm just trying to shed some light on the issues with their product that you mention.

granted, but you must understand that most pipe bands higher than grade 2, and even most grade 2's for that matter, customize their chanters. They might be using the McCallum base, but the finished product sounds nothing like the stock piece.

This is true for any chanter whether it's McCallum, Sinclair, Shepherd or whichever brand. But if the foundation isn't there no amount of carving will fix it. I've played Sinclairs from grade 1 bands and the holes are all oblong from carving. Naill custom designed a chanter to Terry and Jack Lee's specifications but they still went back to Sinclair even though they end up carving the holes.

And as for the pro pipers that use McCallums, let me ask you this.

If you knew that you were going to be giving away/selling a set of your pipes to one of the better pipers in the world, would you unknowingly/knowingly give him a crappy set, or would you have someone hand pick the wood, and then work your magic.

I don't know who bought their pipes off the rack and who went to Kenny or Stuart personally for their pipe. Since band chanters are usually special order then it's probably likely that they are going to give the best to a grade 1 band.

As for the right amount of aging, thats a different story.

Aging can go anywhere from 3 years to as long as it takes. BUT when you begin to bead and comb a piece of wood that is still GREEN, you should rethink your place in the business.

I wouldn't know a green piece of blackwood from a 40 year old piece. What are the signs that tell you how green a piece of blackwood is?

If you want a real lesson, go talk to Dave Atherton, who was the master craftsman of Kron bagpipes for years, and now lives close to me. Send him an email, and he will gladly walk you through the whole process.

Ringo Bowen is also another person who will gladly walk you through the whole process. Roddy MacLellan, even the guys at Sinclare or Dunbar will explain it to you. McCallum, I fear, did not have time to explain their history, or take on bagpipes, which does not bode well for them.

So did you talk to Stuart McCallum or Kenny MacLeod? I have been told by pipers that have visited their shop in Kilmarnock that Stuart and Kenny practically let anybody who comes in have the run of the shop. But maybe none of them have asked them to get walked through the whole process.

I have personally never, touched or played any pipes by Dave Atherton, Charlie Kron, or Roddy MacLellan so I can't comment though they have great word of mouth which says a great deal. I have some experience with Dunbar (they make Ringo Bowen's line of pipes don't they?) and agree with you there.

Whether turned on a treadle lather or cut in a CNC machine, what ultimately count are the dimensions. If the bore, length and wall thickness aren't in the right proportions nobody is going to get tone out of those sticks.

And besides, whose to say MacDonald or any of the Glens or MacDougals wouldn't have used more mechanized machinery had it been available in their era?

I totally respect the craftsmanship of those who choose to do as much of the process by hand and who are exacting in every detail.

But it's the piper who chooses the pipe. It's what the piper does with the pipe that matters.

I am not going to buy a cheeseburger for the same price as a steak, when I could just as easily have the steak.

It's all in how you cook it. Besides, anything coming from the UK is going to be pricier these days since the value of the US dollar has taken a dip.

[pancelticpiper]

Whether turned on a treadle lather or cut in a CNC machine, what ultimately count are the dimensions. If the bore, length and wall thickness aren't in the right proportions nobody is going to get tone out of those sticks.
.

This is a point that some people miss. The best hand-picked and carefully aged timber, and the finest craftsmanship, in the end have a far smaller impact on the tone of the drones than the dimensions.
The fact is the the McCallum drone pattern is a good one and McCallum drones have a nice tone, are easy to reed, and are steady.
A top-level competitor here has classic silver-and-ivory Hendersons and Lawries and a set of MacDougalls and in competition he plays.....a new set of McCallums. Another top competitor here plays new McCallums. These sets sound fantastic in their hands. These guys could play any kind of pipe they wanted to, and they choose to play McCallums. Anybody asserting that McCallums are junk has to grapple with these facts.

[sjcavy]

and again, I reply...I have seen some McCallums that have very shoddy dimensions. Yuck. But, we are getting away from the question....

For the money, MacLellans are cheaper (and in MY opinion) a better bagpipe than the McCallums.

[AaronMalcomb]

and again, I reply...I have seen some McCallums that have very shoddy dimensions. Yuck. But, we are getting away from the question....

Shoddy meaning what? Something obvious like bores out of round? Was it only detectable with a digital caliper?

For the money, MacLellans are cheaper (and in MY opinion) a better bagpipe than the McCallums.

Basic McCallum - button mount, blackwood, beaded/combed, beaded nickel ferrules, nickel slides, nickel ring caps: $965 (average price of US online retailers)

Similar MacLellan - button mount, blackwood, beading/combing not stated for button mount sets, beaded nickel ferrules, nickels slides, nickel ring caps not offered: $1230 (price from MacLellan website)

Quality is subjective.

Sorry to bust your chops, man. That's just the culture on this message board. If you can't back up your claims with cited sources, empirical data etc somebody will question you. There are probably better ways to spend our time.

[sjcavy]

so I paid $1489 for my MacLellans(A.Blackwood, beaded and combed, Bronze drone caps and ferrules, engraved aluminum tuning pins, and cocobolo projecting mounts, and a dunbar elite 2 chanter)....

I priced the McCallums....$1500-1799.

And I have the recipt for hard evidence. I checked out all he McCallum dealers I know, and they all have the same prices.

and yes, bores out of round is what I saw. WITH MY EYES.

Go price out Roddy's stuff. and then go get the 10% discount from Ringo Bowen on his website.

McCallum doesnt offer that.

[pancelticpiper]

so I paid $1489 for my MacLellans(A.Blackwood, beaded and combed, Bronze drone caps and ferrules, engraved aluminum tuning pins, and cocobolo projecting mounts, and a dunbar elite 2 chanter)....

I priced the McCallums....$1500-1799.

It's difficult comparing pricing when it's often the price of the mountings that's creating the difference. I've not seen bronze-mounted McCallums on offer. So how were the $1500 to $1799 McCallums mounted?
If the McCallum quote was for a one-off custom job done with mounts exactly the same as the McLellans, fair enough.
More informative is to compare identically-mounted sets, as another post did. Say, fully beaded and combed, with blackwood button mounts, and nickel ferrules. Even the material used on the endcaps can influence price.
About a bore being out-of-round, that has nothing to do with the dimensions a maker is using for his pattern. That has to do with whether the wood was properly seasoned, and/or what conditions the pipes were exposed to after manufacture.
As I said earlier, with the weak US dollar, fine pipes like McLellans are a bargain. Much of the price of a UK-made set is going towards the poor exchange rate.

[sjcavy]

exactly my point. but enough of that. Im not trying to bash mcCallums, so Im not going to talk about them anymore, but for this one last thing.

for the price that I paid for my MacLellans, you can get a set of fully mounted imitation ivory ans plain nickle mcCallums.

for a roughly compared set equal to mine....the McCallums are 1749. just saying, as a poor college student, the better choice for me (and others on a tight budget) the MacLellans are amazing.

[pancelticpiper]

About McCallum using wood which isn't seasoned properly, that's been the subject of long and acrimonious debate on Dunsire.
Kenny McLeod, a top piper and one of the owners of McCallum, asserts that his source for blackwood is the same as many other makers, and that it is sufficiently seasoned.
Others assert that McCallum uses "green" wood and that because of it McCallum pipes shrink and warp more than other makes.
The various pipemakers seem unwilling to reveal how long, and by what methods, their wood is seasoned, leaving the consumer to guess.
Many anecdotes have been brought forth about McCallums (and other Scottish makes to be fair) shrinking and warping, but many of these pipes are being played in harsh invironments, and it's unclear how well these pipes have been treated by their owners.
I've tried to do as fair an assessment of the argument as I can.

[justajoe]

I play McCallums. I have never heard a set of MacLellan's and to be honest, I am going to call Roddy over this weeks end and chat about having a set made up... after clearing it with my wife of course. they are some nice looking stocks and if the sound is what the people are saying then the cocobolo should be a nice set for indoors.

Recently, I heard a newer set of McCallum's hit up with MG reeds. It was the sound you fell in love with. The pair of these two are amazing. they were easy to tune, and held in tune - something that should be expected from any hand made instrument. Someone recently told me McCallum is shipping with SM90s now. I dont know about that...

I have also heard of people having minor problems with their McCallum's, then contacting McCallum, and receiving a new part priority mail. That kind of service is top shelf and people need to know that they are not just getting a set of pipes from someone in a garage and should the need arise, McCallum will be there to help.

i have found that if a majority of your playing is with a street band then the McCallum is for you. they stand up to alot and can look the part of a wedding piper, the sound is top shelf, and the customer service is marching with you.

i hope that helps man. after all this, the biggest thing i can tell you, from my history anyway... DO NOT get discouraged. just like you have gotten to this point all with practice... your lip will get there, your fingers will get there, the right presure will be there... all with practice. you owe it to yourself not to give up. learning the pipes is a whole different instrument from the chanter. just hang in there... and ignore the geek fest that sometimes happens here.

good luck and happy piping.