Serving two...or three...masters?

Trixle · Post by **Trixle** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:58 am

I'm still pretty new to the whistle with about 7 months under my belt, and in my quest to listen to as much Irish Music as possible, i have fallen in love with some of the other instruments as well, namely the uilleann pipes and the irish flute.

I'm pretty happy with my whistle progress so far. Even though i've only been playing seven months, i play easily as well as someone with like, 7 and a half months experience

I have yet to order a set of pipes (saving up though, that sound is just too enchanting) and have ordered my first tipple flute as of like an hour ago. What i'm wondering, though, is how complimentary these instruments are to each other, i.e. does learning one help make learning the other easier since the fingerings are very similar between the three instruments, or does learning more than one actually detract from the other. I know that spending time away from one instrument will obviously detract from the that instrument, but is that time spent on one actually a little productive for the other as well since they are similar? Or all they all just totally different beasts?

Will this flute and the future at now unknown pipes take away from the whistling? Should i just hold off totally on the flute and pipes for a few years to i have some degree of proficiency with the whistle, or will ifind that hte addition of the pipes and the flute to my playing actually make me a better whistler as well?

Any ideas on this?

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:08 am

Don't know bout pipes.

Whistle and flute do compliment each other. Speaking
for myself, flute has made me a better whistler, especially.

A lot of what's happening here is rewiring the brain.
As whistle and flute fingering are the same,
practicing tunes on whistle rewires the brain
in ways that transfer not so badly to flute.
No replacement for practicing them on flute,
but there is nothing to worry about in
playing whistle too.

These do work well in tandem.

As to low D whistles, I personally prefer to
play a flute instead.

By the way, a big help on flute, IMO, is playing
higher pitched flutes, e.g. F, G, A, even higher.
These can sound great, they develop a
focused embouchure (quite helpful) because
they're more demanding. Like overtone
exercises except you play tunes.

Also at the higher pitches you can get a first rate
flute for not so much money.

I believe John Skelton does a good deal of
practicing on a Copley F flute.

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:10 am

I'm mostly concentrating on the flute, but I keep a whistle on hand because it is smaller and more portable so I can continue to learn and practice tunes, if not so much technique, in spare moments. Also, I find that having many different keys of whistle helps me learn from recorded music because I can find the key that matches the recording, then after I've got the tune I can transfer to flute.

In other words, one of those instruments is my primary one and the other secondary. I focus more on the flute, because it's more difficult and I personally feel more drawn to learning it. But that doesn't mean I have to completely cease on the whistle.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:02 am

Really love flute and whistle can do things flute
can't do (and vice versa, of course). Especially
in ensembles. Note that a number of the
best performers perform on both.

Trixle · Post by **Trixle** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:05 am

Ah, thanks for the responses so far, looks like i havent made a bad decision

now to find some flute resources that will hopefully be as enlightening as the ryan duns and brother steves pages were in learning the whistle fundamentals.

Boody · Post by **Boody** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:16 am

I too am interested in all three instruments. I have pennywhistles, have ordered pipes and am looking into buying a flute. I used to play a concert flute, and even that was pretty similar to the whistle, so I am sure that a simple flute will be even more similar. I would recommend getting Grey Larson's flute and whistle book, it's great and has al lot of info.
I have an added problem as well, I play guitar and am trying to learn highland pipes, so practice time for all instruments is short

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:33 am

I found Ryan Dunn's and Brother Steve's tutorials as relevant for flute as whistle.

The best flute tutorial I've found for flute is Fliuit by June McCormack.

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:11 am

Playing many instruments is a blast and learning new ones can be a whole hobby in itself. Heck, I've tinkered around with about 50 instruments over the years and enjoyed every moment. Go for it!!

There is a trap though. At first I took up the whistle and learned a couple of dozen tunes. Then I got a flute and learned those same tunes on it. Then I got a set of pipes and tried the same thing. Harp, mandolin, banjo, too. All the same tunes. I ended up wih a wide tonal pallet to choose from, but I still only knew two dozen tunes.

If you go this route, try to learn new music on each instrument. That will allow you the joy of the new experience while building your repertoire at the same time. Playing the same song on three instruments is not the same as playing three different songs.

I never did get much from the harp or the pipes. They just weren't for me in the end, but learning and trying new things was a real blast!

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:05 pm

Trixle wrote:Ah, thanks for the responses so far, looks like i havent made a bad decision now to find some flute resources that will hopefully be as enlightening as the ryan duns and brother steves pages were in learning the whistle fundamentals.

Terry McGee has an excellent site that has extensive info on the Irish Flute: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ . He also makes world class flutes. I have a Rudall Perfected from Terry and it is awe inspiring.

I find that whistle and flute compliment each other. I suggest looking into embrochure types. For example, I have a rounded rectangle embrochure on my McGee. It is easy for learners to get a good tone, it has plenty of power, and offers a great tonal range; especially the sought after dark, reedy and edgy tone.

Good luck and have fun! Cheers, Cyril.

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:20 pm

I've played whistle, flute, and uilleann pipes for around 30 years. Looking back, I sort of did things backwards, as I started on the pipes, then got a flute, then last got some whistles.
They ARE complimentary though different. I wouldn't play a tune the same way on whistle that I would on flute (on whistle I would tongue and on flute not, on whistle more even dynamics, on flute strong pulsing, etc). And often you simply can't play something the same way on the pipes. On flute and whistle you can almost just think of a note and it happens, and big leaps are easy (like jumping from bottom D to high B or whatever) but on pipes you sometimes have to map out how you're going to get from one note to the next and sometimes have to alter the tune a bit to make it pipe-friendly.
Though there aren't really any notes which are fingered the same on pipes as on flute/whistle (because the pipes have extra holes for the thumb and pinkie) all the fingering is analogous. So for example:
flute/whistle .... pipes
xxx ooo ... x xxx ooxx is G
xxo ooo ... x xxo xxxx is A
xoo ooo ... x xoo xxxx is B
oxx ooo ... x oxx xoxx is C
ooo ooo ... x oxx xxxx is C#
oxx xxx ... o xxx xxxx is middle D
so on the pipes, the "normal" fingering, "on-the-leg close fingering", only one or two digits is raised for any note.
But then there are "open" fingerings, and "off-the-leg" fingerings, etc, so one often finds oneself using four or five different fingerings for the same note depending on timbre, ornamentation, on/off the leg, vibrato, etc. Add to the mix that several notes might have to be fingered differently in the second octave, and fingerings often differ from chanter to chanter.
But, the basic concept of the fingering and ornamentation is similar.
I've had students learn pipes and whistle at the same time with no problems.

Trixle · Post by **Trixle** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:21 pm

thanks for the responses, they are very comforting and encouraging...now to save up for the pipes, lol.

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:19 pm

When you get ready to get your flute be sure to contact Doc Jones. He is GREAT to work with.

http://irishflutestore.com/newsite/

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:22 pm

As others have suggested, any synergism derived from learning more than one instrument is abated by the specivity and time commitment that's required for each instrument, presuming of course that your goal is to play each to a high caliber. If you have the time, ambition, and discipline, then go for it.

mutepointe · Post by **mutepointe** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:56 pm

I play a few instrument and have plans to learn a couple more. I would really really really like to play songs on all my instruments at the same time but I'm not the least bit interested in recordings and studios.

My family and friends say that I just want to play with myself.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:19 pm

I think there are some very small and possibly
convenient four-track recorders. Playing duets
and trios with yourself doesn't require a studio.
Good fun.

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(Right-wing religious fanatic)