Elder Chanter Reeds

Charlie Skelton · Post by **Charlie Skelton** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:35 am

I've been making some Elder reeds for my C chanter, initial results are encouraging, they are brighter and more positive than the same reeds in cane; they come up a little sharp but setting them a little further out of the chanter compensates perfectly.
Encouraged by this I thought to repeat the experiment with a concert pitch reed and have found that they come out around a semitone sharp despite being dimensionally consistent with my cane reeds, any thoughts?
If anyone is interested, I have created an access database for storing reed information for chanters, if anyone would find it useful, I would be happy to send them a copy.

Cheers

Charlie.

Mike Hulme · Post by **Mike Hulme** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:15 pm

Hi Charlie.

Chris Bayley, Brendan Ring and I were discussing elder chanter reeds a couple of years ago.

Brendan was carving his chanter reeds out of solid wood. rather than the branches, so this may be one area which you might like to investigate.

Chris was again using solid wood, but turned the wood to round and proceeded as with cane reeds, cutting a slip from the cannon and used his normal reedmaking practices.

I can confirm that the reeds are brighter than cane, but additionally are more stable in tone under varying temperature and humidity. I have played an elder reed in temperatures of 100 degrees F and extremely low humidity and found no problems.

You can also get away with a narrower head with an elder reed, so this might also account for the sharpness you have found.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:54 am

I seem to recall tell that only Old World-grown Sambucus nigra will do, as New World growths have proved too soft for some reason. Is that right?

I've always wanted to try elder chanter reeds, but if I wouldn't have to order the timber from across the pond, well...

Charlie Skelton · Post by **Charlie Skelton** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:29 pm

Mike,

I have been experimenting with both carving from solid ( quarter cleft) elder, and starting with blanks from appropriate diameter branches. Whilst I would hardly say that I have conducted an exhaustive test, I have made some flat set reeds both ways and there seems to be little between them, though I would say that using tube is a lot quicker as profiling the outside of carved slips is somewhat fiddly and tedious.
Regarding availability of Elder I don't know that it is a commercial timber ( gardeners regard it as a bit of a weed here ), I could send some slips over but it would probably break customs regulations!

Cheers

Charlie.

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:29 pm

I've never seen it as a commercial timber. It's everywhere you look here in Oregon. For Chanter reeds I've had better luck starting with larger limbs (~3-4") rather than similar sizes to cane.

J-dub · Post by **J-dub** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:39 pm

as New World growths have proved too soft for some reason. Is that right?

I have had the opposite experience for a lot of the elder that I have harvested, but keep in mind that this stuff growing at relatively high elevation in the Great Basin eviroment. It grows profusely in the Wasatch mountains, although it seldom grows beyond large bush sizes, unless it is near a stream, then it can reach tree sizes. So maybe the stuff around here is stunted becasue of growing conditions. Growing conditions could have pronounced effects on the suitability for reed making, at least that is the case for Arundo donax.

Because much of the stuff I harvested was rather stiff I had to thin the scrape to point where the reed did not last very long, at least that is what I have attributed the short life span to, could just be me. Elder definitely palys sharp of cane, all dimensions being as equal as is possible. I think elder has a higher bending stiffness longitudinally, resulting in higher vibration frequency than cane, and seems somewhat more flexible accross the 'grain', becasue the elevation at the lips is less than for cane. At least that is my experience. I would be interested to know if elder harvested else where behaves likewise.

I have had some limited succes with chanter reeds from ~1" diameter elder branches, but have not tried larger segments, ala Brendan Ring's recomendations. I have only used 'dead on the vine' material that is already pretty dried out, and in some cases apparently noshed on by the local fauna. I have some branches that were harvested green last year, but I think they will need to dry a lot more - has anyone dried their own?

Thanks for the info Charlie, I would like a copy of your access data base, but I'm not sure I have access on my home computer

Cheers!

John

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Thanks, John.

Hey, JES...I might have another project for ya.

Mike Hulme · Post by **Mike Hulme** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:27 am

"I could send some slips over but it would probably break customs regulations! "

Hi Charlie,

I live in the UK, so the problem is the Post Office, not Customs!

Elder grows in my back garden, so I have a good supply of the stuff.

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:13 am

There's elder and then there's elder.

The common black elder of Europe is Sambucus nigra.

The common elder of N. America is Sambucus nigra ssp canadensis. Sure, it is just a subspecies of the other, but S. canadensis has very different properties (i.e., growth form, woodiness) from the Old World Sambucus.

If you have Sambucus canadensishandy by all means go ahead and give it a go. My source (whose initials rhyme with my own) says the European Sam. is the only man for the job.

Oh, and steer clear of Sambucus rubra for reeds, wine and jellies. Poisonous.

T

meemtp · Post by **meemtp** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:58 pm

Would that source be making his reeds out of Elder now instead of soft cane? If it's who I think it is, I wish I'd asked him when he was here in June.