choices, choices.......

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:13 am

On 2002-11-06 17:47, JessieK wrote:
I have played a few Shaws and they are like REALLY BAD Clarkes. I have played one Alba Low D, and I have heard that they have been improved since then, but it was extremely breathy, so much so that the top octave was not possible without hyperventilation.

If you buy one of these, you will decide that you don't like the Low whistle. Save yourself the money, over time add more to the Low whistle account, and get yourself a real one.

Jessie

How definitely opinionated. Or overly ass-ertive... Hey, no hard feelings, I'm a donkeys fan, I can relate with them.

IMHO, I reckon some like the sound of Shaw whistles, some like Alba's. It seems the original post precisely mentioned a taste for very breathy sound.

Loren heard the whole question and gave a balanced answer, starting from respecting Jeff's initially expressed taste. Do you like the kind of salesmen telling you : "Oh no, fer shure you don't want a motorbike. They'll make you hate the road. Get a van!"

I, for my humble part, wouldn't have had any interest in whistling, but for the sound of some breathy Low D's. I still don't care much for playing high whistles (I like them played by others... sometimes) especially when they lack chiff. I like the (old-series) Alba big D for its breathiness (a "wind drone" consistent across 2 octaves), and one of the most solid bottom D I heard, and easy fingering, and being in tune. Yes, it could require less air ; I ponder the idea of buying the new model, but I know I'd better quit smoking first! Again, all this told IMH--beginner's--O.

B.t.w. I didn't quite get the link between breathiness and wind requirement. I've seen whistles which required more air, yet had a much clearer tone. Could you elaborate ? :roll:

________________
A# approximates Bb

[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-07 04:38 ]

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 6:51 am

On 2002-11-06 21:49, chas wrote:
Loren, I'm sold on (G). I've recently received a Grinter high-D which is wonderful, and I've emailed him about low whistles and flutes. Haven't heard back -- any idea what a low-D whistle or flute runs?

I've also been in touch with John Swayne. He doesn't take US funds or credit cards, only bank transfers from the US. Wiring money is REALLY expensive, at least for me. About 40 bucks, which adds a lot to a ~$200 whistle. Any ideas on a cheaper way to get money to the UK?

Charlie

Charlie,

I don't have a clue what Michael's current prices are on the whistles - back when I bought one they were being sold through a sole distributor here, and I understand the pricing changed after that partnership ended...I think the prices actually have gone down.

The flute prices are on his website I believe. Michael told me like 2 years ago that he was going to update the website to include info, pics and pricing on the whistles....I think the word "Soon" means something differnt to flute and whistle makers

Don't know about the other thing, athough cheaper ways of getting the money thing taken care of have been discussed, so hopefully someone who can help will chime in on that.

Loren

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:07 am

On 2002-11-07 04:13, Zubivka wrote:
How definitely opinionated.

Um, yeah. I have played hundreds of whistles and have traveled to meet many whistle and flute makers and players, and I have opinions, which, if I remember correctly, is what was sought by the original poster.

Or overly ass-ertive...

How clever.

Hey, no hard feelings

Well, that certainly is a matter of opinion.

I'm a donkeys fan, I can relate with them.

Screw you.

IMHO, I reckon some like the sound of Shaw whistles, some like Alba's.

And thus the beauty of OPINIONS (However, you mention an observation of others' opinions, not your own "HO"). People who seek them (others' opinions) need to decide whose have more experience behind them and credibility.

Do you like the kind of salesman telling you: "Oh no, fer shure you don't want a motorbike.

Hell, yeah! If I got the ridiculous idea to put my life on the line by riding a deathmobile, I would definitely want someone to talk me out of it!

I, for my humble part, wouldn't have had any interest in whistling, but for the sound of some breathy Low D's.

What is all this humble crap? You are not humble. You attacked me. But congratulations, you like breathy Low D's.

B.t.w. I didn't quite get the link between breathiness and wind requirement.

Perhaps you are confusing wind requirement with air pressure. Generally, in my experience, if a whistle sounds breathy, it's because the air is not economically channeled into making a good sound, and most of the breath is lost through the window.

I've seen whistles which required more air, yet had a much clearer tone.

Well, I haven't. And I think I've seen a lot more whistles than you, something I would NOT have brought up if you hadn't attacked me for sharing an opinion. Sometimes, as in my post yesterday, I care whether people do something which I consider to be a mistake. But if you want to spend all your money on Shaws and Albas, go ahead. It won't bother me at all.

Jessie

Edited to all the following:

*You are right about something. Loren did listen better to the question. And the original poster did speak of a preference for breathy whistles. So I probably should have stayed out of the thread. I just can't imagine he (or anyone) meant THAT breathy. I mean, a Sweetone sounds kind of breathy, but it doesn't take the wind out of the blower. There are MANY people on this board who have taken whistle recommendations from me and have agreed with them. So we have learned something from this. If you ever want help deciding on a whistle, don't ask me for it. (Of course I know, you are dying to say that you would never do such a thing. Bravo.) *

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2002-11-07 11:20 ]

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:22 am

On 2002-11-07 11:07, JessieK wrote:
Hell, yeah! If I got the ridiculous idea to put my life on the line by riding a deathmobile, I would definitely want someone to talk me out of it!
Typical : I guess you drove scores of them, hence your opinion. Or did I get it wrong again ?

Please excuse me for my cheap jokes. I guess this is also typical from one who doesn't master a language. However, I don't feel too bad about this detail : you got even :
"Screw you"

in a way more elegant fashion.

Anyway, I didn't want to start a war with you. I just got irritated by a definitive assertion about two respectable craftspersons. I certainly do not pretend I got your experience when it comes to trying whistles. I didn't gather you have much experience in whistlesmithing, either. However, I had enough experience in other realms of craftsmanship to get wary whenever someone expresses "Such&Such person/brand makes crap". Any such opinionated, definitive assertion defeats its supposed credibility. I've never seen a crap-making craftsman survive. Hark to this, and you might convey your opinions even better--in whistle boards as in real life.

Also, when a craftsperson yourself, how would you feel if a whistle manufacturer barged in your thread for commercial promotion of your own jewelry, and started w/ something like "Hey, this is the tackiest stuff I saw in my blurdy life" ? Please do try and think of it.

I sounded probably overly agressive when reacting to your post. I was just mildly irritated. Someway it forced you into a better illustrated, balanced reformulation of the same opinion. I DO like your second version better, no sarcasm here. In its own direct way, it does convey a few nuances.

Now, you can of course reply to this here on the board, and we'd start boring everyone else (I'll share the rap). So why don't you further "screw me" somewhere else, like on private messages ? I'll buy the beer, sweetheart. Just the same--it's virtual.

_________________
BbZH

[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-07 12:48 ]

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:33 pm

Nah, I'll screw you right here in the open.

On 2002-11-07 12:22, Zubivka wrote:
I guess you drove scores of them, hence your opinion. Or did I get it wrong again ?

Your winks are incredibly insincere and annoying. The one time I was a passenger on a motorcycle, I was so scared I couldn't breathe. I have, in person, seen three people die in motorcycle accidents, and I have known others who did. You brought up the motorcycles, not I.

Please excuse me for my cheap jokes.

No.

you got even : "Screw you" in a way more elegant fashion.

Actually, elegance is not always my intention.

I didn't want to start a war with you. I just got irritated by a definitive assertion about two respectable craftspersons.

Ok. I have nothing against the people who make Shaw or Alba whistles. However, when you put a product out for the market, you set yourself up for criticism. They know that.

I didn't gather you have much experience in whistlesmithing, either.

Actually, I have made several quite playable silver whistles and a quite playable Irish wooden flute. How about you?

I do know my commercial limitations, though, and would not ever sell an instrument that I made (too much work). I have received positive feedback on all of the instruments I have made.

However, I had enough experience in other realms of craftsmanship to get wary whenever someone expresses "Such&Such person/brand makes crap".

I don't believe I used the word "crap." And why would you get wary of a negative opinion???

Any such opinionated, definitive assertion defeats its supposed credibility.

I disagree.

I've never seen a crap-making craftsman survive.

Wow, you haven't seen much, then. There are craft shows where the guy who sells the plywood signs that say "Hot tub rules: No pee'n, No spit'n, No cuss'n" sells more stuff than any of the high quality crafts in the show. How do you explain that???

Hark to this, and you might convey your opinions even better--in whistle boards as in real life.

Um, hark to nothing, but I agree that there are more diplomatic ways of giving a negative review. There are well-known and well-respected makers of instruments that I think are not up to snuff. And there are others that I think are underappreciated. And I guess it wasn't nice of me to pick on the little guy(s). But I still think you are a jerk.

Also, when a craftsperson yourself, how would you feel if a whistle manufacturer barged in your thread for commercial promotion of your own jewelry, and started w/ something like "Hey, this is the tackiest stuff I saw in my blurdy life"? Please do try and think of it.

Um, did I miss something? Was this a commercial thread? I don't think so. And as for how it would feel, I do juried retail and wholesale craft shows almost every weekend. I take QUITE a lot of criticism. People yell at me for defacing coins, others say "A dime for $24???" But you know what? The $4000-5000 total at the end of the weekend makes up for the criticism and shows me that I must be doing something right. Jewelry is decorative. It does not serve a function other than personal expression of artistic choice. Musical instruments are suppused to function and help the musician as opposed to hindering him or her.

I sounded probably overly agressive when reacting to your post.

Yeah, and I still think you are a jerk. I am not alone in this, either.

I'll buy the beer, sweetheart. Just the same--it's virtual.

Not so virtual. I think you are a jerk in the real world. By the way, are you sleeping with someone who makes money from Shaws or Albas?

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2002-11-07 13:59 ]

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:39 pm

Somebody pass the popcorn, this is getting good!

Wow, so this is what it looks like from the sidelines....

Loren

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:48 pm

This stuff just makes me sad.

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:49 pm

Yeah, the only difference is that when it's one of us, there's always someone from nowhere who will make a comment that will make the fight even worse.

I think we need more of this, it's very entertaining

[Edited] Bloomfield, yeah.... hu, me too, me too!!

[ This Message was edited by: Azalin on 2002-11-07 13:50 ]

jeffmiester · Post by **jeffmiester** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:06 pm

My God, what have I started?!?

Lol, guys(or gals), calm down please. I asked for opinions on these brands, and I can seperate the good advice from ranting. I pretty well trust dale's reviews on these whistles and if he says it's a good sounding and playing whistle i'll belive him. If a certain brand was complete crap, it either wouldn't sell at all, or at least dale would say so, (and since he's played quite a few i'd think he'd have some idea about the merits of a whistle). Btw, it's almost weird how some whistle will get such different views. Like susatos for example, some people will say the don't like them (or even hate them), that they sound too much like recorders, ect., while other people absolutly love them. So who knows? But I appreciate the imput. lol
jeff

oh, (and i cringe when i start this), how do dixons sound, I've been looking at their prices but haven't been able to find any sound clips on them (that might be a suggestion for manufacturers, put sound clips of the whistles on the web pages!), what do you think? (I haven't heard a shaw either, only one clip from an alba)
jeff again

[ This Message was edited by: jeffmiester on 2002-11-07 14:19 ]

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:27 pm

Actually, Dale is put in a awkward situation whenever a maker sends him a whistle for review. He is ALWAYS diplomatic about reviewing whistles and will not, under most circumstances, give a negative PUBLIC review. Bear that in mind.

Jeff:
I can seperate the good advice from ranting.

My goodness. I apologize for trying to save you the hassle of wasting your money. Go ahead. I look forward to seeing your whistles up for sale for less than you paid.

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2002-11-07 14:29 ]

jeffmiester · Post by **jeffmiester** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:44 pm

whoa, i wanst pointing fingers, look i know you guys dont want me to end up with a dud, ya just get a little passionate some times. but look, i enjoy a good argument as much as the next guy, ive got enough scot in me!
jeff

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:47 pm

Yes, I DO get passionate. Especially about instruments. And I know my stuff - ask Dale. You WERE pointing fingers. Good luck.

Edit: Maybe you weren't pointing fingers. I am PMSy now. Sorry.

But NOT sorry to the jerk.

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2002-11-07 14:56 ]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:32 pm

But NOT sorry to the jerk.

JessieK, Right slagin off me whistles one thing but calling MOTOR CYCLES is some thing else, so now yer got me good an mad.
So what do you know,maybe I can review a piece of your crap jewellery, or one of your silver don't play to badly whistles.
As a Goldsmith of thirty years standing I think I handle it. Which is more than you can say for my Laverda, and while I'm at it, Zub knows his onions even if he rides beemers.
Long live bikes,life on the edge whistles,
and Brittiany.

Wizzy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 pm

[
Please excuse me for my cheap jokes. I guess this is also typical from one who doesn't master a language. However, I don't feel too bad about this detail : you got even :

"Screw you"

in a way more elegant fashion.

Anyway, I didn't want to start a war with you. I just got irritated by a definitive assertion about two respectable craftspersons. I certainly do not pretend I got your experience when it comes to trying whistles. I didn't gather you have much experience in whistlesmithing, either. However, I had enough experience in other realms of craftsmanship to get wary whenever someone expresses "Such&Such person/brand makes crap". Any such opinionated, definitive assertion defeats its supposed credibility. I've never seen a crap-making craftsman survive. Hark to this, and you might convey your opinions even better--in whistle boards as in real life.

_________________
BbZH

WAY TO GO Zub you realy told her!:WINK:
wiz

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:42 pm

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: wizzy on 2002-11-07 15:46 ]