FS: My ethics

[djm]

Oh, to have my scruples well wrapped ....

djm

[Dale]

Along similar lines, I'm thinking about selling out. Maybe selling out to "The Man." But, really, just selling whatever it is people sell when they sell out.

Offers?

[jemtheflute]

Oh, to have my scruples well wrapped ....

djm

Don't trifle with my scruples! Or are my screws pulling loose?

[djm]

What you gon' do with all that junk?
All that junk inside your trunk?
I'm-a get, get, get, get, you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my ethics.
My ethics, my ethics, my ethics, my ethics, my ethics,
My ethics, my ethics, my ethics, my lovely little scuples (Check it out)

etc.

djm

[WyoBadger]

Along similar lines, I'm thinking about selling out. Maybe selling out to "The Man." But, really, just selling whatever it is people sell when they sell out.

Offers?

I'd try Ebay.

Tom

[azw]

There are at least two intertwined conversations going on here, aren't there?

I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe that we're significantly different from politicians. We're all political beings to some degree. That's how we negotiate social relations. And we're all part of the system that puts politicians over us and that allows them to stay in power. We put them there. And to a large degree, their behavior in that role is determined by social pressure, which is another way of saying that they're just trying to keep us all happy. Of course, their doing what we say we want is the source of a lot of our problems, isn't it?!

But it's not just humans. There's a fascinating book by Frans de Waal, Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex among Apes. It's a good read and you'll see yourself reflected in the chimps' behavior. I did!

[jemtheflute]

Oooooh. Ooooh-ooooh! Now I feel like a right chi/ump.

[djm]

And to a large degree, their behavior in that role is determined by social pressure, which is another way of saying that they're just trying to keep us all happy.

I disagree. They do what the powerful want (the ones who bought our votes). Only a small portion of what is done by politicians, or governments in general, is for the public good. The rest is done to ensure the rich get richer, that power stays with the few, and that the rest of us are kept too busy trying to get by to have time or resources to do anything about it.

djm

[jim stone]

Consider Al Gore. This fellow is pretty plainly one of
the more principled politicians, he actually believes some things
and is willing to stand for them. Also he loves his family
a good deal, and means well by children.

In 1999, Elian Gonzales, a five-year-old Cuban boy
was found floating in an inner tube off Miami. His mother had
taken him, without informing his father, on a boat of
refugees. The boat sank, the mother drowned, Elian
survived.

The father went to the UN to have his custody rights affirmed.
The boy was in the hands of relatives in Miami, whom he had
never met before, the center
of a political maelstrom. The relatives insisted that they
be awarded permanent guardianship and they applied for refugee status
for him. They insisted he not be returned to his father,
but that his fate be decided by a Florida family court,
where they were likely to get their way.

The Clinton administration affirmed the custody right of the father,
who had come to the USA and was plainly a good guy.
The argument for this seems decisive. The father, as surviving
parent, had legal custody as a matter of law. That he lived in
Cuba didn't change this. Parents who live in Communist countries
still have legal custody of their children, even if the
child is abducted elsewhere. In addition the child,
who had seen his mother drown, was plainly better off
in the custody of his loving father and his extended family
at home in Cuba, than with a bunch of relative strangers
in the center of a political maelstrom in Miami.

It is hard to believe Al Gore didn't believe this too.
The well-being of a five-year-old child was plainly on
the line. I would bet the ranch Al Gore knew
the Clinton admin was doing the right thing legally,
and protecting the boy's welfare.

Nonetheless Al Gore backed the family against
the father, breaking with his own administration.
When it became plain the law would require the
family to file in federal court, not a local family
court in Florida, Al Gore spoke out that there should
be legislation passed that would ensure the
case would be decided in a Florida family
court. Meanwhile Elian should not be returned to
his father, Gore said.

He did that because he didn't want to lose Florida, on
which the coming election hinged. Gore was the
Dem candidate.

Surely
Al Gore has strong beliefs about the welfare of children
and its critical importance. There was a fierce political
and legal battle going on, the outcome of which
was uncertain. Gore, the Vice President, split
his own administration by supporting the family.
He was willing to sacrifice Elian Gonzales,
for votes in Florida.

I couldn't have, wouldn't have, done that. I would have lost my soul.

Some dialogue from the 70s Show:

Donna to Jackie:

My parents are behaving like idiots. I think the marriage is
falling apart.

Jackie:

That's not so bad. The parents of a friend of mine got
divorced, she played her cards right and got a new car,
new clothes...

Donna:

You're saying that if my parents divorce I can get all sorts
of neat stuff.

Jackie:

Right.

Donna:

So when did you lose your soul?

Jackie:

I think it was the summer of cheerleading camp.

[jazzman]

Apologies to all: This is not about flute playing, but a healthy bit of the old pub conversation never hurt anyone, eh?

We do not live in a black and white world or country.

I don't think politicians are dishonest as a whole..they try and do what they think is best for their consitutents: Road spending, hospitals, gerrymandering (to keep the opposition party out and themselves in), and as that benefits a lobby, well, tres cool.

We may not all agree with each other: But isn't it nice we can speak what's on our minds? I'll defend your right to an opinion until they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

I'll stop now....Anthony

[djm]

my cold, dead hands.

That can be arranged .....

djm

[daiv]

i cant beileve this actually got moved to the flute forum! that's hilarious. btw... my ethics are for sale too, but not my musical integrity.

if anybody's interested, this is what my ethics look like:

[djm]

this is what my ethics look like

Then you've already been sold down the river.

djm

[Cork]

UPDATE:

Thanks to a proprietary process, my ethics have been completely renewed, and I can now offer a brand new, unused ethics package, at only a modest increase in price!

[jim stone]

Remember, altruism pays!