I returned a couple of days ago from a five
day self-retreat at Mid-America Buddhist Association
(you can find them online), a Chinese Buddhist
monastery an hour West of St. Louis. It's
way out in the country on a couple of hundred
acres of lovely land, surrounded by hills.
There's an old farm house and a new
meditation hall. Also a new building in which
the ashes of deceased people, all of them Chinese-American,
are stored--it contains a huge
statue of a bodhisatva whose special role is
keeping people from being reborn in a
Hell Realm.
There was nobody there but two Malaysian nuns
and the Abbot, Ji Ru, who is on a two year self
retreat in a trailer behind the meditation hall.
It was so hot that the meditation hall was impossible
after 7 AM. I sat each morning from 6 to 7
with the nuns. I spent most of my time in
my little room, because it had an air conditioner.
On the first floor of the meditation hall there
is a large dining room, and I did a great deal of
walking meditation there. It was cooler than upstairs.
I blasted myself with fans.
I was bored to tears. I ate lunch at 12 with the nuns,
lovely people, in fact. We ate strange Chinese
food. Otherwise I was on my own.
It was very hard to sit in meditation in my room.
I kept lying down on the bed and then falling
asleep.
Finally I started reading books on Buddhism; there's
a good library. One isn't really supposed to do this
on a retreat, you're supposed to meditate. But the choice
was between reading and passing out, so I read--a book about
the Dalai Lama, 'The Wisdom of Forgiveness' by
Victor Chen, and all sorts of other stuff.
Once our power failed, the AC died, and I figured
I would too.
I went home dissapointed, the worst retreat I've
ever done. But when I got home, presto!
I was five times saner, calmer and more serene
than when I went in.
Buddhist practice works, the excrutiating boredom
is part of getting free of attachments.
But, oh my, is it labor intensive!
Do any of you do religious retreats in this, or other,
religious traditions? e.g. Christian retreats?
What are those like?
Another Buddhist retreat
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anniemcu
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You remind me of how very long it's been since I have done intense meditative practice... I need it... thanks for the nudge.
anniemcu
---
"You are what you do, not what you claim to believe." -Gene A. Statler
---
"Olé to you, none-the-less!" - Elizabeth Gilbert
---
http://www.sassafrassgrove.com
---
"You are what you do, not what you claim to believe." -Gene A. Statler
---
"Olé to you, none-the-less!" - Elizabeth Gilbert
---
http://www.sassafrassgrove.com
The place I went is free. There was no charge.
Monasteries often charge nothing. Buddhism
operates largely on dana, 'generous giving.'
So you voluntarily give what you can,
or you don't. With monks and nuns, there's
never supposed to be a quid pro quo--
no charge for teaching.
Some meditation centers, like Insight Meditation Center
in Barre Mass, probably the flagship of the Vipassana
meditation community, charges about 50 dollars
a day for room and board. This is required
just to keep the place running. Hundreds of
people are coming through. However the meditation
teachers/retreat leaders are payed nothing. They also receive
(or don't receive) dana. Some of the teachers are
monastics, but most are lay men/women.
IMS has a sliding scale, scholarships for broke people,
or people who are struggling with sickness,
and occasionally an entire retreat is free, room, board,
everything, or dana-based, which means it's as free
as you wish. I've done at least one long retreat there
and given them nothing--at least nothing till a year
later when I gave some dana, a good deal less than
the retreat cost them.
IMS also has a work retreatant option. You stay for
free and work four hours a day. I was a work retreatant
there for two months once, working in the garden.
The nature of places like IMS is that they try to find a way
to let in for free people who can't pay. Of course they
hope mightily that people who can pay will pay,
and then some....
I would suppose options like these exist in the
Christian community too.
Monasteries often charge nothing. Buddhism
operates largely on dana, 'generous giving.'
So you voluntarily give what you can,
or you don't. With monks and nuns, there's
never supposed to be a quid pro quo--
no charge for teaching.
Some meditation centers, like Insight Meditation Center
in Barre Mass, probably the flagship of the Vipassana
meditation community, charges about 50 dollars
a day for room and board. This is required
just to keep the place running. Hundreds of
people are coming through. However the meditation
teachers/retreat leaders are payed nothing. They also receive
(or don't receive) dana. Some of the teachers are
monastics, but most are lay men/women.
IMS has a sliding scale, scholarships for broke people,
or people who are struggling with sickness,
and occasionally an entire retreat is free, room, board,
everything, or dana-based, which means it's as free
as you wish. I've done at least one long retreat there
and given them nothing--at least nothing till a year
later when I gave some dana, a good deal less than
the retreat cost them.
IMS also has a work retreatant option. You stay for
free and work four hours a day. I was a work retreatant
there for two months once, working in the garden.
The nature of places like IMS is that they try to find a way
to let in for free people who can't pay. Of course they
hope mightily that people who can pay will pay,
and then some....
I would suppose options like these exist in the
Christian community too.
Re: Another Buddhist retreat
If the sensation that the heat has become unbearablejim stone wrote:......It was so hot that the meditation hall was impossible after 7 AM.
........
arises in the mind
simply observe that the sensation has arisen in the mind
Do not attempt to block it it out
Do not attempt to remedy it
Do not attempt to celebrate it
Simply observe
Observe the arising of the sensation of unbearable heat
in the mind
Observe the sensation of suffering during its duration
and
observe
the passing away of the sensation
in the mind
Thus continues the practice of observation
in the sitting position ......
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
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KatieBell
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My better half just got back from such a retreat at a small Catholic monastery where they are living the life of the desert fathers. He found it to be highly beneficial, renewing, peaceful, and to provide the opportunity for growth he was seeking.
They typically recommend retreats be three days long. Anyone there longer than that will typically be asked to help with the monastery's labor. As he was, this is what his weekday schedule was like:
4:15 wake
4:30-6:30 prayers in the church
6:30-7:00 breakfast (informal, come and go)
7:00-12:00 The monks were typically working during this time. Several included naps in there as well. 3-day retreatants would spend this time in personal prayer or contemplation. Reading the Bible and other spiritual books would be encouraged (there are some methods of prayerful reading that would be especially conducive such as lectio divina). One's spiritual father would assign certain books to be read for a retreat. Walking in the desert mountains or through the monastery garden are alternatives. Some days he would go miles into the mountains to pray. Those on longer stays would also help the monks with their daily tasks. He helped hang doors, run errands, work on their website, etc.
12:00-12:30 prayers in the church
12:30-1:00 lunch (informal, come and go, not uncommon to have a few interesting conversations or laughs)
1:00-6:00 Rest and personal labor again. Spiritual direction as needed.
6:00-7:15 Prayers in the church.
7:15-7:45 Dinner. Weekday dinners are silent while one monk reads aloud from a spiritually beneficial book. Saturday and Sunday dinners are taken aloud.
7:45-8:30 Recreation and relaxation.
8:30-9:00 Prayers in the church.
9:00 personal retreat to rooms for meditation, prayer, examination of one's conscience, and sleep.
9:00p-4:30a strict silence is maintained.
The pay method you describe is exactly the same. Catholic monasticism has hospitality as one of its pre-eminent principles, so guests are not turned away. The general rule of thumb is that those who are able donate about half of what comparable accommodations would have cost in a secular setting, but there are plenty who cannot afford anything. The monks frequently had people stop in asking for food or a place to sleep for the night and they were always happy to share what they had. They "hired" a number of people, just as you describe, to garden or do other such jobs in exchange for more long-term housing and food. He said he found it to be "spiritually profitable to step back from everything and spend the time in church and prayer."
This isn't where he went, but I hope to one day go there myself. It sounds like your Buddhist retreat was very similar, except for the proscriptions against reading and working, which are strongly intertwined with the Trappist lifestyle that this linked monastery maintains. You might enjoy looking at the site to compare and contrast, especially their section on retreats.
http://www.newmelleray.org/
They typically recommend retreats be three days long. Anyone there longer than that will typically be asked to help with the monastery's labor. As he was, this is what his weekday schedule was like:
4:15 wake
4:30-6:30 prayers in the church
6:30-7:00 breakfast (informal, come and go)
7:00-12:00 The monks were typically working during this time. Several included naps in there as well. 3-day retreatants would spend this time in personal prayer or contemplation. Reading the Bible and other spiritual books would be encouraged (there are some methods of prayerful reading that would be especially conducive such as lectio divina). One's spiritual father would assign certain books to be read for a retreat. Walking in the desert mountains or through the monastery garden are alternatives. Some days he would go miles into the mountains to pray. Those on longer stays would also help the monks with their daily tasks. He helped hang doors, run errands, work on their website, etc.
12:00-12:30 prayers in the church
12:30-1:00 lunch (informal, come and go, not uncommon to have a few interesting conversations or laughs)
1:00-6:00 Rest and personal labor again. Spiritual direction as needed.
6:00-7:15 Prayers in the church.
7:15-7:45 Dinner. Weekday dinners are silent while one monk reads aloud from a spiritually beneficial book. Saturday and Sunday dinners are taken aloud.
7:45-8:30 Recreation and relaxation.
8:30-9:00 Prayers in the church.
9:00 personal retreat to rooms for meditation, prayer, examination of one's conscience, and sleep.
9:00p-4:30a strict silence is maintained.
The pay method you describe is exactly the same. Catholic monasticism has hospitality as one of its pre-eminent principles, so guests are not turned away. The general rule of thumb is that those who are able donate about half of what comparable accommodations would have cost in a secular setting, but there are plenty who cannot afford anything. The monks frequently had people stop in asking for food or a place to sleep for the night and they were always happy to share what they had. They "hired" a number of people, just as you describe, to garden or do other such jobs in exchange for more long-term housing and food. He said he found it to be "spiritually profitable to step back from everything and spend the time in church and prayer."
This isn't where he went, but I hope to one day go there myself. It sounds like your Buddhist retreat was very similar, except for the proscriptions against reading and working, which are strongly intertwined with the Trappist lifestyle that this linked monastery maintains. You might enjoy looking at the site to compare and contrast, especially their section on retreats.
http://www.newmelleray.org/
To be on a quest is nothing more or less than to become an asker of questions. -Keen
-
BillChin
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My church has an annual three day retreat. There is good food, entertainment and social activities at night, first class accommodations. The program includes classes, seminars, workshops, and other outdoor activities such as a nature walk with obligatory tree hug, or a drum circle.
The workshops might be on spiritual topics such as how to pray effectively, or how to meditate. Some might be more self-help in terms or specific issues such as prosperity, health, forgiveness. There might be projects where folks cut up old magazines to make poster board collages of what their ideal life looks like in pictures. There are rituals such as metaphorically letting go of the past, or grudges, or letting in and accepting the perceived good a person would like in their life.
Their is a charge, a steep one, to attend. A good percentage of the money goes to the conference center for room and meals.
The workshops might be on spiritual topics such as how to pray effectively, or how to meditate. Some might be more self-help in terms or specific issues such as prosperity, health, forgiveness. There might be projects where folks cut up old magazines to make poster board collages of what their ideal life looks like in pictures. There are rituals such as metaphorically letting go of the past, or grudges, or letting in and accepting the perceived good a person would like in their life.
Their is a charge, a steep one, to attend. A good percentage of the money goes to the conference center for room and meals.
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djm
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I don't think BillChin's retreat is in the same category. It sounds more like a community-building event than a personal retreat into prayer and meditation. - not that I'm putting it down or anything, just that it seems to me to be a different sort of beast altogether than the original topic of this thread.
djm
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
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straycat82
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I've taken part in a retreat for the last three years to San Luis Obispo, California. The weather there is always much more relaxing and refreshing than the hot, exhausting weather in Phoenix.
My living quarters there are a wooden cabin with no water, heat, or a/c. I do usually have lights. We do spend time building community with those around us but there is also a lot of emphasis on meditation and personal spiritual growth. Each morning starts with a family style breakfast, followed by a personal time of meditation and then a community worship. Likewise, each day ends with a community dinner, worship and a time of personal meditation before bedding down.
One thing that makes this retreat different from many others I've seen is that we take about three hours from each day to serve someone in the community. We spend more time on this than on any other activity while there. Sometimes it is doing yard work for an elderly woman who can't, or perhaps painting a house for the same. We've done activities with underprivileged children and we've helped farmers who were falling behind in their work. All free, of course, and for the purpose of learning to humble yourself in servitude and do something out of love for a fellow human being (or group of people).
I come back home every year on the biggest, unmatchable high and I look forward to going each year. It's great to leave the car, the house, the job, the "stuff" behind and just live on the bare essentials. I think that, while it is important to focus on yourself and your own spiritual growth, we were not meant to be alone and some of your most important growth comes from interacting with those around you and learning to humble yourself to those around you in selfless service.
My living quarters there are a wooden cabin with no water, heat, or a/c. I do usually have lights. We do spend time building community with those around us but there is also a lot of emphasis on meditation and personal spiritual growth. Each morning starts with a family style breakfast, followed by a personal time of meditation and then a community worship. Likewise, each day ends with a community dinner, worship and a time of personal meditation before bedding down.
One thing that makes this retreat different from many others I've seen is that we take about three hours from each day to serve someone in the community. We spend more time on this than on any other activity while there. Sometimes it is doing yard work for an elderly woman who can't, or perhaps painting a house for the same. We've done activities with underprivileged children and we've helped farmers who were falling behind in their work. All free, of course, and for the purpose of learning to humble yourself in servitude and do something out of love for a fellow human being (or group of people).
I come back home every year on the biggest, unmatchable high and I look forward to going each year. It's great to leave the car, the house, the job, the "stuff" behind and just live on the bare essentials. I think that, while it is important to focus on yourself and your own spiritual growth, we were not meant to be alone and some of your most important growth comes from interacting with those around you and learning to humble yourself to those around you in selfless service.
Last edited by straycat82 on Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheSpoonMan
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I agree, but I must point out that in Christianity, there's really no clear divide, doctrinally speaking, between personal and corporate devotion. We have personal prayer times and devotional times in our retreats, as in our week-to-week services, but also times of corporate worship and edification: you can't have one without the other, because Christianity is a communal religion: we are all one body. There's no real difference, to us, between the building up of one another and the building up of ourselves, becuase we're all connected by the Holy Spirit.djm wrote:I don't think BillChin's retreat is in the same category. It sounds more like a community-building event than a personal retreat into prayer and meditation. - not that I'm putting it down or anything, just that it seems to me to be a different sort of beast altogether than the original topic of this thread.
djm
"We, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another." Romans 12:5
Not trying to argue, just trying to explain why it's so
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Steamwalker
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That's alot of prayer.KatieBell wrote:My better half just got back from such a retreat at a small Catholic monastery where they are living the life of the desert fathers. He found it to be highly beneficial, renewing, peaceful, and to provide the opportunity for growth he was seeking.
They typically recommend retreats be three days long. Anyone there longer than that will typically be asked to help with the monastery's labor. As he was, this is what his weekday schedule was like:
4:15 wake
4:30-6:30 prayers in the church
6:30-7:00 breakfast (informal, come and go)
7:00-12:00 The monks were typically working during this time. Several included naps in there as well. 3-day retreatants would spend this time in personal prayer or contemplation. Reading the Bible and other spiritual books would be encouraged (there are some methods of prayerful reading that would be especially conducive such as lectio divina). One's spiritual father would assign certain books to be read for a retreat. Walking in the desert mountains or through the monastery garden are alternatives. Some days he would go miles into the mountains to pray. Those on longer stays would also help the monks with their daily tasks. He helped hang doors, run errands, work on their website, etc.
12:00-12:30 prayers in the church
12:30-1:00 lunch (informal, come and go, not uncommon to have a few interesting conversations or laughs)
1:00-6:00 Rest and personal labor again. Spiritual direction as needed.
6:00-7:15 Prayers in the church.
7:15-7:45 Dinner. Weekday dinners are silent while one monk reads aloud from a spiritually beneficial book. Saturday and Sunday dinners are taken aloud.
7:45-8:30 Recreation and relaxation.
8:30-9:00 Prayers in the church.
9:00 personal retreat to rooms for meditation, prayer, examination of one's conscience, and sleep.
9:00p-4:30a strict silence is maintained.
The pay method you describe is exactly the same. Catholic monasticism has hospitality as one of its pre-eminent principles, so guests are not turned away. The general rule of thumb is that those who are able donate about half of what comparable accommodations would have cost in a secular setting, but there are plenty who cannot afford anything. The monks frequently had people stop in asking for food or a place to sleep for the night and they were always happy to share what they had. They "hired" a number of people, just as you describe, to garden or do other such jobs in exchange for more long-term housing and food. He said he found it to be "spiritually profitable to step back from everything and spend the time in church and prayer."
This isn't where he went, but I hope to one day go there myself. It sounds like your Buddhist retreat was very similar, except for the proscriptions against reading and working, which are strongly intertwined with the Trappist lifestyle that this linked monastery maintains. You might enjoy looking at the site to compare and contrast, especially their section on retreats.
http://www.newmelleray.org/
-
BillChin
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djm wrote:I don't think BillChin's retreat is in the same category. It sounds more like a community-building event than a personal retreat into prayer and meditation. - not that I'm putting it down or anything, just that it seems to me to be a different sort of beast altogether than the original topic of this thread.
djm
My comments certainly fit into Jim Stone's question and add to the thread, your comments and personal preferences do not. Other religious traditions have different types of retreats. Religion is practiced in a thousand different ways. I think many readers can appreciate my perspective on this topic.Jim Stone wrote:
Do any of you do religious retreats in this, or other,
religious traditions? e.g. Christian retreats?
The retreat is organized by a church and attended by people that go to the church. The seminars and workshops are run by ministers. Almost all of the topics are spiritual or religious. That qualifies at least 90%. If you want to nitpick on 10%, that may be something you choose to work on.
Last edited by BillChin on Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KatieBell
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For the monks, it is around 4 hrs and 15 min of prayer in the church each day, around 6-8 hours of labor, around 2 hours of personal prayer and study, around 1 hr 30 min eating, around 7-9 hours of sleep, and the rest in recreation or personal care (about an hour and 15 minutes). On the weekends, they have very little personal labor and spend a large part of the time in recreation and relaxation. The food is more festive, the meals are taken aloud, the local community eats and talks with them a lot more, etc. They form their day around the hours of the church as they are praying not only for themselves but for all the church. Then they make their living with their labor, and they share their hospitality through guiding retreats and accommodating guests. But they do not loose sight of the need for moderation in all things, so they enjoy the feasts just as much as the fasts.Steamwalker wrote:That's alot of prayer.
To be on a quest is nothing more or less than to become an asker of questions. -Keen
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djm
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Has nothing to do with my preferences, and I didn't mean to nitpik or find fault, as I pointed out. Just a different interpretation.BillChin wrote:My comments certainly fit into Jim Stone's question and add to the thread, your comments and personal preferences do not. If you want to nitpick on 10%, that may be something you choose to work on.
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.