Chromaticism?
- Chatterton
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:21 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Toronto
Chromaticism?
So I've been greatly enjoying my green Feadog, but since I've only been exploring the wonderful world of whistles for the last 72 hours, I have a few dumb questions to ask.
Stupid question(s) #1: Just how chromatic can these things get with the false fingerings, etc.? I've been looking at the fingering chart at fullbodyburn.com & noticing it gives fingerings for every chromatic note in the first 2 octaves. I've got my hands full covering the notes of the D & G scales, but do others have an easier time with these notes? Would a more forgiving whistle be easier on the chromatics? If and when I get my chops together, is there any chance of playing in every key and maybe perhaps play some bebop or maybe some free-form 12-tone silliness? I always wanted a saxophone.
More stupid questions to come in a week or so. Thanks.
Stupid question(s) #1: Just how chromatic can these things get with the false fingerings, etc.? I've been looking at the fingering chart at fullbodyburn.com & noticing it gives fingerings for every chromatic note in the first 2 octaves. I've got my hands full covering the notes of the D & G scales, but do others have an easier time with these notes? Would a more forgiving whistle be easier on the chromatics? If and when I get my chops together, is there any chance of playing in every key and maybe perhaps play some bebop or maybe some free-form 12-tone silliness? I always wanted a saxophone.
More stupid questions to come in a week or so. Thanks.
- lordofthestrings
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:51 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Mundelein, IL
there are many many alternative fingerings for chromatic notes, and with "half holeing" (covering a hole only partially, kinda tricky to pe pitch perfect) there really aren't any chromatic notes you can't achieve.
There ARE alternatives...such as a keyed whistle....
This one (below my signature) has keys for Fnat, and Bb, and is set up for a lefty (moi). I do make keys for Fnat, Bb, G# and Eb, thus making the D scale fully chromatic.
There ARE alternatives...such as a keyed whistle....
This one (below my signature) has keys for Fnat, and Bb, and is set up for a lefty (moi). I do make keys for Fnat, Bb, G# and Eb, thus making the D scale fully chromatic.
- - - Spence - - -
A little autobiography, including pictures, Here
Actually, I hate music. I'm only doing this for the money.
A little autobiography, including pictures, Here
Actually, I hate music. I'm only doing this for the money.
- Mitch
- Posts: 1826
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:58 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Wombatistan
- Contact:
Hi Chatterton,
The pennywhistle is basically a diatonic instrument - much like a blues-harp harmonica. The chromatics can be got with practice, but it is not going to be as easy as, say a guitar, piano or keyed woodwind.
If you were to practice your chromatics and scales religeously, then there would be nothing to stop you from treating it as a chromatic beasty. Legend has it that the great Irish fluters can play fluently in any key on a standard D flute. In practice, this might be making things too hard for yourself when most the other keys are already available in their native form (so to speak) and that a pennywhistle always costs a lot less than a fully chromatic instrument (no matter how "high-end" the whistle is).
The other main thing to consider is what you intend to play. If you are playing western folk styles (Irish, Nth American, etc) then incidental flats and sharps are rare - you would be well served to understand the church-modes diatonic theory. If you want to play jazz then the chromatics are going to be essential. Perhapse you might consider a keyed whistle - Daniel Bingamon has been known to make such things (look for his posts in this forum) - also whistles with a non-diatonic scale base.
It might also be an idea to consider scale temperaments and the Indic concepts of how the note can be less important than how you get to it and how you depart from it - whistes are good for this kind of thing because you have a lot of freedom with pitch using slides, half-holing and cross-fingerings and breath control.
Hope it all goes well for you!
The pennywhistle is basically a diatonic instrument - much like a blues-harp harmonica. The chromatics can be got with practice, but it is not going to be as easy as, say a guitar, piano or keyed woodwind.
If you were to practice your chromatics and scales religeously, then there would be nothing to stop you from treating it as a chromatic beasty. Legend has it that the great Irish fluters can play fluently in any key on a standard D flute. In practice, this might be making things too hard for yourself when most the other keys are already available in their native form (so to speak) and that a pennywhistle always costs a lot less than a fully chromatic instrument (no matter how "high-end" the whistle is).
The other main thing to consider is what you intend to play. If you are playing western folk styles (Irish, Nth American, etc) then incidental flats and sharps are rare - you would be well served to understand the church-modes diatonic theory. If you want to play jazz then the chromatics are going to be essential. Perhapse you might consider a keyed whistle - Daniel Bingamon has been known to make such things (look for his posts in this forum) - also whistles with a non-diatonic scale base.
It might also be an idea to consider scale temperaments and the Indic concepts of how the note can be less important than how you get to it and how you depart from it - whistes are good for this kind of thing because you have a lot of freedom with pitch using slides, half-holing and cross-fingerings and breath control.
Hope it all goes well for you!
- MTGuru
- Posts: 18663
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:45 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: San Diego, CA
Re: Chromaticism?
Well, if you listen to the goofy version of Si Bheag, Si Mhor in my WhistleThis clips (see sig below), you'll hear that I make use of the altered notes F-nat, Eb/D#, Bb/A#, and Ab/G# on a standard D whistle. The first two notes are half-holed, the other two cross-fingered. I used a Burke, but it works just as well (or poorly) on my Feadóg, too.Chatterton wrote:is there any chance of playing in every key and maybe perhaps play some bebop or maybe some free-form 12-tone silliness?
So I guess the answer is, yes, you can sort of play bebop on your Feadóg. But beyond the usual C-nat and G# (and sometimes F-nat), you're pushing the envelope a bit.
Oh, and I used to be a semi-pro saxophone player. Really.
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
- Daniel_Bingamon
- Posts: 2227
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Kings Mills, OH
- Contact:
As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words".
Keys allow opening to be made about half-way in-between the regular toneholes. A Chromatic Low-D plays just like a normal Low-D for the D Major Scale.
So, if you play 'A' for example and then open the tonehole above the 'A', it becomes A# or Bb.
Here's one my earlier Chromatic Low-D's
I had some newer pictures somewhere, still looking.
Keys allow opening to be made about half-way in-between the regular toneholes. A Chromatic Low-D plays just like a normal Low-D for the D Major Scale.
So, if you play 'A' for example and then open the tonehole above the 'A', it becomes A# or Bb.
Here's one my earlier Chromatic Low-D's
I had some newer pictures somewhere, still looking.
- Chatterton
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:21 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Toronto
MTGuru: very nice tune! Inspiring, indeed.
I tried a few of the half-hole notes out last night with pretty decent results, so I think I'll try to do some stuff with the unaltered whistle & see how far I can take it.
I'm not looking to actually play jazz on a whistle. But I used to be a very serious jazz student & have a healthy respect for that tradition & was wondering if I could become a more well rounded player by working on the occasional Charlie Parker/John Coltrane solo. That plus the fact that I also compose and there's no guarantee that every piece I write inspired by Irish Trad is going to stay in D or G.
I tried a few of the half-hole notes out last night with pretty decent results, so I think I'll try to do some stuff with the unaltered whistle & see how far I can take it.
I'm not looking to actually play jazz on a whistle. But I used to be a very serious jazz student & have a healthy respect for that tradition & was wondering if I could become a more well rounded player by working on the occasional Charlie Parker/John Coltrane solo. That plus the fact that I also compose and there's no guarantee that every piece I write inspired by Irish Trad is going to stay in D or G.
- colomon
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Whistle player, aspiring C#/D accordion and flute player, and aspiring tunesmith. Particularly interested in the music of South Sligo and Newfoundland. Inspired by the music of Peter Horan, Fred Finn, Rufus Guinchard, Emile Benoit, and Liz Carroll.
I've got some compositions up at http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/SolsTunes.html - Location: Midland, Michigan
- Contact:
I don't know about flute (I assume you mean a keyless flute, it should be easy with a fully keyed wooden flute), but I know at least one, probably two whistle players who can play an Eb scale at tempo on a normal D whistle using half-holing. If you're good enough to do this, it's actually in some ways better than having a keyed instrument. You can hit notes which are impossible to play on (say) a piano -- all those lovely blue notes that fiddlers and pipers play. I've even heard a whistler (intentionally!) play a note halfway between F# and G in a (non-Irish) tune. Plus you can bend all notes freely.Mitch wrote:Legend has it that the great Irish fluters can play fluently in any key on a standard D flute.
Sol's Tunes (new tune 2/2020)
- Chatterton
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:21 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Toronto
- Carey
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:38 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: In the dog house. Gone playing music too much recently.
- Contact:
Hi Chatterton, I've been thinking of attempting "Itsbeen Reel" since I picked up the whistle, but have not got past capturing it (possibly) in notation. I'd think it would be a good point of departure for some explorations into jazz, eh?Chatterton wrote:But I used to be a very serious jazz student & have a healthy respect for that tradition
When there's a huge spill of solar energy, it's just called a nice day.
http://www.parkswhistles.com
http://www.parkswhistles.com
- Chatterton
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:21 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Toronto
- Daniel_Bingamon
- Posts: 2227
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Kings Mills, OH
- Contact:
Keys are smaller and closer together on high whistles. I've made one High-D whistle with three keys on it. They're a bit harder to do.Chatterton wrote:That sounds intriguing.
Next stupid question: Do bigger whistles (altos, etc.) make chromaticism easier? I imagine they'd have bigger holes, which might be easier to manipulate. Please correct me if I've assumed incorrectly.
Bigger is easier.
- Whitmores75087
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Dundalk, Ireland (now living in TX)
- Contact:
Re: Chromaticism?
Simple answer to your question: "No".Chatterton wrote:So I've been greatly enjoying my green Feadog, but since I've only been exploring the wonderful world of whistles for the last 72 hours, I have a few dumb questions to ask.
Stupid question(s) #1: Just how chromatic can these things get with the false fingerings, etc.? I've been looking at the fingering chart at fullbodyburn.com & noticing it gives fingerings for every chromatic note in the first 2 octaves. I've got my hands full covering the notes of the D & G scales, but do others have an easier time with these notes? Would a more forgiving whistle be easier on the chromatics? If and when I get my chops together, is there any chance of playing in every key and maybe perhaps play some bebop or maybe some free-form 12-tone silliness? I always wanted a saxophone.
More stupid questions to come in a week or so. Thanks.
Short bio: 1952-