Unusual Olwell Flute Opportunity

[Steamwalker]

Just out of curiosity (since I know nothing about Olwell flutes or his waiting lists) but why wouldn't one just sell the flute and place another one on order?

[Loren]

.......
with the understanding that when I can afford to, I repay the amount in full, and you return the flute, obviously in the same condition I sent it to you in. Your "interest" in the deal comes, of course, in the form of being able to get your hands on an Olwell Prattens right now.
........
And yeah, I'll expect you to care for it better than you did your first born.

So whats the contractual consideration for your prospective moneylender/"buyer" here? They lend you $1500 interest free for the privilege of looking after your flute so well that you you will want to pay them back the loan for it?

In other words they shouldn't even risk playing the flute - you know it might roll and fall or something.

Apparently you, like several others who have posted similar thoughts, didn't get the fact that much of what I wrote was said tongue planted firmly in cheek - the items you quoted above being the most obvious examples. And the latter could hardly be construed any other way, in light of the emoticon directly following it.

I think it's interesting that those who have a personal ax to grind with me, as evidenced by past posts, have chosen this particular thread for a bit of attempted character assasination. Well, I give you credit: Kicking a man when he's down is a good tactic in a street fight - one day it might save your life - however I wonder at the value of such tactics here on the message board?

I'm certainly no saint, and I've dished it out here now and then over the years, but my history here is not that of someone who attacks and tries to sabotage the sales or trades of other members, unless they have a proven history of screwing other board members. And regardless of what some of you think about me and my opinions on various subjects, you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone here on C&F that can say I'm anything other than honest in the extreme, particularly when it comes to any sort of transactions on these message boards.


Assail me if you like, but the fact is: Screwing people - attempting to take advantage of others in any way, is simply not in my character make-up and my history here over the years proves that.



Loren

[Loren]

Oh yeah, and the flute is spoken for.

Loren

[Harry]

[livethe question]

I came to this post late but wanted to say that while I've never met Loren in person, I have corresponded with him over the years and we've done some business together. All have been positive interactions. I trust Loren completely. What he says he will do, he will do.

Both he and Jessie have been extremely helpful both in general posts and private posts as they've answered questions and pointed me in the right direction when I asked for advice. I should be jumping all over Loren's blue Overton. I've lusted after it in the past.

In my very humble opinion, Loren's proposal was very straight forward and had no hidden traps. All was above board. If someone didn't want the deal, no one was forcing or coercing them.

I just hate to see a person who has been a real assest to these forums get trashed.


jim d

[talasiga]

.......
with the understanding that when I can afford to, I repay the amount in full, and you return the flute, obviously in the same condition I sent it to you in. Your "interest" in the deal comes, of course, in the form of being able to get your hands on an Olwell Prattens right now.
........
And yeah, I'll expect you to care for it better than you did your first born.

So whats the contractual consideration for your prospective moneylender/"buyer" here? They lend you $1500 interest free for the privilege of looking after your flute so well that you you will want to pay them back the loan for it?

In other words they shouldn't even risk playing the flute - you know it might roll and fall or something.

Apparently you, like several others who have posted similar thoughts, didn't get the fact that much of what I wrote was said tongue planted firmly in cheek - the items you quoted above being the most obvious examples. And the latter could hardly be construed any other way, in light of the emoticon directly following it.

I think it's interesting that those who have a personal ax to grind with me, as evidenced by past posts, have chosen this particular thread for a bit of attempted character assasination. Well, I give you credit: Kicking a man when he's down is a good tactic in a street fight - one day it might save your life - however I wonder at the value of such tactics here on the message board?

I'm certainly no saint, and I've dished it out here now and then over the years, but my history here is not that of someone who attacks and tries to sabotage the sales or trades of other members, unless they have a proven history of screwing other board members. And regardless of what some of you think about me and my opinions on various subjects, you'll be very hard pressed to find anyone here on C&F that can say I'm anything other than honest in the extreme, particularly when it comes to any sort of transactions on these message boards.


Assail me if you like, but the fact is: Screwing people - attempting to take advantage of others in any way, is simply not in my character make-up and my history here over the years proves that.



Loren

CONCEPTUAL

A rational (though imperfect) answer sample to Talasiga's (and other's) question:-

The contractual consideration is that the other person
1. in effect, gets to "hire" the flute at (say) $150 per annum
2. gets to keep the flute for an extra $500

[talasiga]

.....
In my very humble opinion, Loren's proposal was very straight forward and had no hidden traps.

.......

Hidden traps need not be deliberate traps.
This discussion may save Loren a raft of legal problems.

One hidden trap is that the flute is damaged in some way during the loan period. The damage may or may not be recognised or admitted as damage by both parties. Loren may not want the damaged flute back and the other party may not want to pay the balance to keep the flute. If the other does not recognise/admit any damage or change to the flute, the other may press legally for Loren to return the 1500USD and take his flute back. There are myriad permutations of this sort of hidden trap.

[flutefry]

FWIW, I'm in the camp that says "where's the harm in two adults coming to an agreement?" Loren offered a simple deal, simple to understand, with the costs, benefits, and risks fairly laid out. I think Loren is right that lots of people buy flutes to see if they like them, and then move them on if they don't work out. In this scheme, while you can often get your money back, or most of it, your money is still tied up in the flute, and not earning interest while you are trying it. This turns out to be the cost of the extended trial period. There is a risk you won't get your money back, or will damage the flute, but people cheerfully accept this risk judging by the flute rolling reported here.

I don't always agree with Loren, have never met the guy, but have learned a lot from his posting. I do think he has been poorly treated in this thread. Some time ago I offered to buy a flute from someone who appeared to be selling under duress with the understanding that they could buy it back at the same price in the future. I knew I was agreeing to be a pawnbroker. But I was happy to do so for the chance to play the flute in question. I was also happy to assume the risk that the seller might never ask for the flute back, or that my attack cats would chew on it.

Save me from people who want to save me.

Cheers,
Hugh

[carrie]

I agree with flutefry.

I've had nothing but positive dealings with Loren on a variety of transactions and I believe him to be completely honest in these matters. This seems a very simple deal to me, and the injection of legal what-ifs is laughable when one imagines the deal to be concluded--as I'll bet it has been--between two mutually respectful souls.

[sbhikes]

Oh for crying out loud. He's offering to lease the flute for a flat fee.

I should think that anybody could find better things to sell for $1500 around the house. I would sell my car before my flute.

[Dale]

There was really no reason for these attacks. Loren has a a long history on this board and there's no reason whatever to think he is trying to pull a fast one. He expressed the deal clearly and people were free to pass or take him up on it. Somebody took him up on it.