easier to sound good on flat pipes?

rorybbellows · Post by **rorybbellows** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:48 am

I was listening to some of my old LP,s of a piper playing a Bb set and a B set ,some lovely playing indeed .The pace of the playing was slow and methodical and the sound of the pipes were very mellow and pleasing .
I was trying to imagine what it would sound like if the exact same playing was played on a concert pitch set and I don’t think it would have sounded half as good
.I don’t think anyone would deny that flat pitch and concert pitch are best played in different ways. Flat pitch pipes can easily be played at a slower pace and sound good,partly due to the mellower tone, where as concert pitch nearly demands that you play quicker and with more ornamentation.
So for the beginner do you think it is easier to sound good on flat pitched pipes than concert pitch???

RORY

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:15 am

rorybellows wrote:So for the beginner do you think it is easier to sound good on flat pitched pipes than concert pitch???

I was going to say "no", but it IS an interesting question. You could flip it around and ask "does concert pitch magnify the warts and blemishes in piping?".

I still think no, though...my screwups are just as there for me whatever chanter I play.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:43 am

Yes and no. Beginners will like that they are in general easier blowing than a concert set.

But you still need precise muscle memory to really get the best out of a flat set and that doesn't happen ovenight.

Buying a C set isn't going to teach you any new tunes, or improve your sense of timing.

All of the hard work you have to do in order to become good at the art of piping is still required.

Spouses, children, and roommates will probably be more forgiving of a beginner playing a flat chanter, though, so its mellowness can help with maintaining a consistent practice regime.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:17 am

Pat Cannady wrote:Spouses, children, and roommates will probably be more forgiving of a beginner playing a flat chanter

I often recommend to my students to obtain a trumpet when starting out on the pipes. It's a handy tool, for comparative reasons. Uilleann pipes will seen incredibly pleasant to your family in comparison

Pat ver1.03

PS - Congrats Pat & Karen. Wish I was there!

Paul Reid · Post by **Paul Reid** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:18 pm

*Pat* Heehee

I asked Benedict Koehler if he had a favourite pitch to play in and he as much said no, then commented how flat sets can be more forgiving. Something about a concert pitch that shows most flaws. I'm not sure if I completely agree, but I do prefer the flat set sound. I'm constantly amazed by the sound I hear from my KQ C set, especially if someone else is playing it!!!

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:42 pm

Besides being a bit easier to blow a flat set, I have found that for myself, switching back and forth from flat to concert really forces me to work on cleaning up my fingering.

djm

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:31 pm

djm wrote:Besides being a bit easier to blow a flat set, I have found that for myself, switching back and forth from flat to concert really forces me to work on cleaning up my fingering.

djm

It will depend on your reed, though. My C set is reeded rather robustly, shall we say. I believe tommykleen will confirm this.

At first I thought I wanted a lighter-blowing reed, but I've grown accustomed to the way it is, and I like its "presence". Not the same as a concert chanter, but I think a bit gutsy all the same for a flat chanter. If my fingering's lax, it shows.

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:01 pm

Nanohedron wrote:...My C set is reeded rather robustly, shall we say. I believe tommykleen will confirm this.

Yes.

Yours,

tommy"intensive care" kleen

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:07 pm

tommykleen wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:...My C set is reeded rather robustly, shall we say. I believe tommykleen will confirm this.
Yes.

Yours,

tommy"intensive care" kleen

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:05 pm

As a member of the flat piping community I petition the moderators to change the thread title to

'easier to sound crap on concert pipes'

The current title is the kind of mellowphobic intolerance we flat players have to put up with on a daily basis.

Mukade
( to be taken with a large dose of emoticons)

somethingclever · Post by **somethingclever** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:40 pm

I believe that this is the reason why slow aires on concert pitch chanter are more difficult then faster pace songs. The slightest deviation in pressure and position can change the note, and in slow songs, the long notes leave you and your technique as naked as a j-bird. If you don't do eveything perfectly to execute an individual note in an aire, EVERYONE knows it. At least in faster tempo songs, your moving onto a new note already so you can let the previous note go. Not to mention higher pitch notes are more difficult to control no matter what instrument it is, but thats just physics.

(this is just one mans opinion.)

Alex

The Sporting Pitchfork · Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:37 am

What you say is indeed true. It is therefore fortunate that I do not sing songs whilst playing tunes.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:08 am

Sounds like a complete

to me...if ye can't sound good on a concert set wot makes ye think that ye are gonna be any better on a flat set.

I disagree that it is easier to blow..my concert set is a breeze to blow as is the flat.Its how it is set up that counts.Try blowing through a small diameter straw /tube and a larger diameter one and tell me which is easier? the concert set may or may not use slightly more air I do not know nor do I care ,if ye are a bad concert player then don't kid yersel that ye will somehow be a good flat player.Practise will make ye a better player now feck aff and do some...

Uilliam

billh · Post by **billh** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:34 am

Fish stocks aside, I'll have to disagree and just say "yes". (fish stock, mmmm)

Of course pipes are a very personal instrument and this won't be true for everyone. And I reckon it depends a lot on the specific instrument and how it is reeded, its tonehole spacing, etc.

I have however often been amazed at the transformation in the playing of learners (and even some experienced pipers) when they are handed a nicely reeded flat chanter with reasonably close tonehole spacing. Many times someone whose playing sounded quite strained and rough became immediately more fluent, and sounded "like someone who could play the pipes".

(This doesn't work for some experienced concert pitch players who have grown accustomed to a much harder reed setup - their tendancy to overpower the chanter gets in the way. And a few players are thrown off course by even a millimeter or two change in tonehole spacing, so it doesn't always work out this way.)

Just my observations...

Bill

seisflutes · Post by **seisflutes** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:08 pm

Well, naturally if you can't play a concert pitch set, a flat set won't help you much, if at all.

But yes, at least, I personally find it much easier to sound good on a flat set. Or, flat sets just sound better in the first place. They're soooo easy to play compared to my concert pitch set. I've only had a chance to play two different B sets, but one of those, a Gallagher, I've borrowed a few times for a month at a time, and I love that set of pipes. It's just so nice to play. There's no fighting with the chanter for anything. Maybe my D set isn't set up as well as it could be, but nothing could make it as sweet as a flat one.