Rythms in Irish Dance Tunes

[walrii]

I spent an evening recently surfing and reading about the rythms of all the various Irish tunes - jigs, reels, slides, etc. All I got was confused by all the music theory. All the sites and posts I read did agree on a couple things however:

1. Dance rythms are driven by the dance they are played for (duh).

2. While the theory may be contentious and confusing, the tunes really do sound different when you hear them properly played.

So, my intent is not to start another thread about the theory of various Irish dance rythms. My questions are related to the points above:

a. How does one dance a reel/jig/slide/ etc? Links to good sites would be nice.

b. What do you consider to be the definative recordings of the various rythms so those of us in the sticks can get them and listen?

c. While listening to the above definative recordings, what should we be listening for?

Thanks in advance.

[cavefish]

I spent an evening recently surfing and reading about the rythms of all the various Irish tunes - jigs, reels, slides, etc. All I got was confused by all the music theory. All the sites and posts I read did agree on a couple things however:

1. Dance rythms are driven by the dance they are played for (duh).

2. While the theory may be contentious and confusing, the tunes really do sound different when you hear them properly played.

So, my intent is not to start another thread about the theory of various Irish dance rythms. My questions are related to the points above:

a. How does one dance a reel/jig/slide/ etc? Links to good sites would be nice.

b. What do you consider to be the definative recordings of the various rythms so those of us in the sticks can get them and listen?

c. While listening to the above definative recordings, what should we be listening for?

Thanks in advance.

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[TheSpoonMan]

a. I don't know much about dancign myself, but I would think that reading about dancing would be the same thing as reading about music. Best to look for videos, or find peopel who do it, and watch them, preferably with music.

[Tia]

um kinda hard questions to answer but I shall try my best
ahem

a) I have absolutly no idea any links, but I did irish dancing, and most of them have the same steps, but you just dance to them differently depending on the beat, hard to explain, best thing would to take a class? or get someone to dance for you, also never really danced to a slide, there might be a short one before a reel or something for a show, but other then that its mostly jigs, reels, hornpipes and slip jigs

b) um dont get this one...sorry

c) I take it you mean how to tell them apart..I think if i'm wrong tell me, listne to the beat, if its in 4/4, 9/8, 3/4 that can usually tell you what dance its in

I hope that helped a little

[jlunt]

I know nothing about irish dancing, but a quick search on youtube with the query "irish dancing lessons" gave some videos that might help. Good luck.

[Innocent Bystander]

I'm in the odd position of being Irish, living in England, and having more experience with Scottish dancing than any other. I regularly attend an "English-style" Ceilidh.

Here is a link to a couple of hokey examples on the BBC Scottish page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/musicscot ... feet.shtml

Here is a link to a very good book about Irish Set Dancing: (I can't find my copy... I had it a month ago...)

http://www.newsfromnowhere.org.uk/books ... 1856351157

And because my own opinion is that Irish, Scottish and English Ceilidh/Ceili/Barn Dancing is much the same (with the careful exception that sometimes Barn Dancing is agressively American in content... perhaps I should say "Country" dancing)
here is a link to a book of the kind of stuff I regularly dance (and dance to):

http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/bigpic.php?ID=GM0101

If you can get a group of about a dozen people together you can put some of these into practice. They are the easy-peasy ones. The Set Dances can take all day to learn. Literally.


I foresee an avalanche of protests about that "much the same". Don't read too much into it. I only mean in terms of the rhythms and general dance forms. The styles vary enormously.

[jen f]

There are some clips of Irish dance on YouTube. Here are a few:

Reel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCJOgj2k6ek
Slip Jig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_WGA0VgNZw
Treble Jig (a double jig, played slowly): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT0DJgvjHIM

Jennifer

[walrii]

I guess I phrased my main question unclearly. I'm looking for recommended recordings (mp3, CDs) of people playing various tunes with excellent rhythm. I'd like recordings with minimal accompaniment and ornamentation so I can follow the tune and the rhythm. I have CDs by Micho Russell, Mary Bergin and Joanie Madden; who are some others? Also, which of the tutorial CDs would you recommend as having excellent rhythm?

[Tommy]

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[Eldarion]

To answer question b, there isn't a single definitive rhythm to play a jig or a reel in when you come to the little phrasing details, because of stylistic differences. The rhythm of a jig played in the northern parts of Ireland would be different from a jig played by Kerry/Ulster musicians.

What would help you would be to listen to various players who are rhythmically strong. For whistlers, you can check out the transcription site:
http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html
The commentary on each recording gives some idea on what one can listen for as well.
Other good sites are like the "Flute Geezer" recordings hosted by C&F Moderator, Rich:
http://www.lafferty.ca/music/irish/flute-geezers/
A CD called Totally Traditional Tinwhistles by Ossian is also a nice one for whistles.

You should listen to players of other instruments. Great players with wonderful rhythms include people like Bobby Casey, Julia Clifford, Dennis Murphy, Tony MacMahon, Joe Cooley, Willie Clancy, Michael Gorman - the list goes on and on. Fiddlers especially, its hard to beat a great fiddler in the rhythm department I think. And listen to a lot of these good stuff so the rhythm of the music goes into you.

About tutorials, personally I haven't yet encountered a commercial tutorial with playing in great rhythm. Some even have pretty bad rhythm that I wouldn't recommend a serious beginner to learn from. My advice is to just follow a tutorial as far as it takes for you to know how to finger the notes and be comfortable with playing some tunes, maybe have a rough idea about basic ornamentation (Brother Steve's site is great for that), then spend the rest of your music money on getting real music of great players and learn your music from there onwards.

[TonyHiggins]

I have a cd by The Abbey Ceili Band. "Bruach an tSulain"
My cousin in Ireland, who is a fanatic for ceili dancing gave it to me as an 'official' representation of correct tempo for dancing in their ceili dance organization. The track list starts with:
The Corofin Plain Set (which has six tracks).
1. 1st figure. Reels The Rambling Rake/The Mountain Road.
2. 2nd Figure. Jigs The Forgotten Banjo
3. 3rd Figure, etc. There are four sets with 5 or six 'figures' each. Most of the tracks have two tunes, some have three or one.
I don't know what figures are, but it sounds somehow official. I couldn't find the cd on Amazon. Anyway, something like that might help. The band is made of accordian, fiddle, banjo, bass/keyboards.
Tony

[swizzlestick]

After all these years of driving my daughter to feis after feis, it's amazing how little I know about step dancing. I do know that feis musicians earn every penny. It's a tough job and dancers are very demanding.

I do agree that you should listen to great players -- especially players known for good rhythm -- but you may need a more basic start to understand the differences. Try taking a look at http://www.whistletutor.com/beginner.htm#lesson1 for the example clips and time signatures.

There is a wide range of CD music published just for step dancing if you want to see what people really dance to. I personally like two released by a Canadian, Tony Nother. He often does workshops on how to play for feisanna and has played for the World Irish Dancing Championship as well as North American championships. Knows his stuff.

[Cayden]

There's an endless confusion here about different school of step dancing, ceili dancing and the usual and most common set dancing. These are not the same things and require different approaches. Look at set dancing, you'll be better off getting the right approach.

This video of the Laichtin Naofa Ceili Band is a good example.

[sbhikes]

I have a CD called Musical Travel Ireland and there's at least one track on it where you can hear people dancing to the music. I'm sure that doesn't help you much, but you can be pretty certain this is music to dance to since people are in fact dancing.

I would think in Texas you could find some square dancing classes where you might be able to see a reel at least. I'm not sure if the dances are the same, though. Probably not.