scaloped or unscaloped

[somethingclever]

so....scaloped or unscaloped and why

[brianc]

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... =scalloped


This is just one of 51 entries of 'scalloped' from the search function.

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

I quite like scalloped potatoes myself, but unscalloped ones will do in a pinch...

[somethingclever]

scalloped is only good with that au gratin sause on it, otherwise i wouldnt eat potatoes as much

[Joseph E. Smith]

scalloped is only good with that au gratin sause on it, otherwise i wouldnt eat potatoes as much

Now that's a clever response!

[Roger O'Keeffe]

Scalloping has an appeal for beginners because it would seem to help to guide the fingers into the right place and give a better air seal. I did have an occasional brush with the sandpaper myself with my first chanter, but was fortunately too indecisive to do any real damage. I think that I was under the touchingly naïve impression that scalloping was due to wear rather than surgical intervention, and like all over-age newbies I wanted to look as if I had a few miles clocked up.

Experienced pipers (and even beginners who practise at least occasionally) don't really need it. Don't ask me why Paddy Keenan's original chanter was scalloped to within a millimeter of its life, maybe someone else had already done the deed.

The real problems arise when someone unskilled takes it upon himself to scallop a chanter that has been designed without scalloping in mind, as the reduced chimney height of the holes affects the pitch of the notes.

A question which exercises me more these days is how "scallop" in English refers to a large cockle or clam, whereas in French escalope is a cutlet, implicitly of veal.

[PJ]

Don't ask me why Paddy Keenan's original chanter was scalloped to within a millimeter of its life, maybe someone else had already done the deed.

I understand (but could be mistaken) that Paddy did it himself in order to increase the brightness of the tone of the chanter.

[billh]

...
The real problems arise when someone unskilled takes it upon himself to scallop a chanter that has been designed without scalloping in mind, as the reduced chimney height of the holes affects the pitch of the notes.

Indeed - even if a "skilled" person attempts this it is bad mojo.

More than just the pitch of the notes is generally affected - the whole performance of the chanter can change, and usually not for the better. Definitely a "void your warranty" operation.

The performance change is not just because scalloping effectively makes the toneholes act larger, but because it also alters the bore - consider: when the fingers cover the toneholes, the chimneys are in effect part of the overall bore perturbations. For instance, changing the scalloping of the back d is likely to alter the tuning of the A's and other notes - something unlikely to be obvious to the novice who contemplates such an operation.

Of course any chanter design can be made to incorporate scalloping by leaving the chimneys as-is and increasing the diameter of the chanter overall.

Some players think scalloping makes it easier to feel, and thus seal, the holes, but in my experience the usual "take a file to it" approach makes sealing the holes harder - scalloping, to be ergonomic, needs to wrap around the chanter sides so that the chanter surface is still convex where it meets the fingers.

Bill

[KevinCorkery]

My first chanter was a Lambe and I had trouble with the F hole leaking, just finger position so I scalloped the F and G hole. Wrong! While I did like the brighter F# it actually made it harder to seal the hole. It can be played but you really do need that convex shape to seal correctly.

[boyd]

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... =scalloped


This is just one of 51 entries of 'scalloped' from the search function.

just to highlight this post again.....this topic has been done loads and had lotsa good thoughts recorded.

Cillian O'Briain scallops the bejaysus out of his chanters (as do those who copy him) and there's definitely nothing wrong with the way his instruments work.

Some makers are good enough to give you choice (always a dangerous thing when its a piper you're dealing with)....that leaves it open to the player....just as long as that player doesn't then try to scallop the thing himself. that would be madness.

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Oh, and FWIW, my chanter is scalloped, but not severely...its a Rogge...I had a plain one to start, but then ordered a scalloped one and put the 1st chanter down as a deposit on a B set.

I tried Rogge sets before ordering one...I thought the chanter was going to be scalloped as the others were...didnt realise there was a choice!
The two chanters I had before that were plain, one from an Irish maker and one from a UK maker.
The main Rogge set I tried out in Belfast had a scalloped chanter and was played by a guy who had at least 30 years piping under his belt and was very well respected as a player rather than a set-collector . So I don't think the "beginner" argument fits with reference to scalloping. Good players can like scalloping too, y'know.

Every maker approaches it differently, the internal bore is what matters, severe scalloping will start to affect that bore, some historical makers used scalloping as a tuning method and we now see a few modern makers (mainly concert pitch) who still employ the method in their work. Modern makers tend to "copy" from a good old chanter.....
...and a room full of makers would never manage to agree on whether one way is better than another.

So.....

as long as the thing feels right for you, and is in tune, properly reeded and easily playable

go with what you personally prefer.

And if you havent tried out a couple of dozen chanters as a comparator before buying what you like the most, then any decision you make will be uninformed and (potentially) an expensive mistake!! (see my story above)


Boyd

[Roger O'Keeffe]

So I don't think the "beginner" argument fits with reference to scalloping.

Yup, that's precisely why I cited P Keenan to relativise what I was saying. And he is both sufficiently subtle and a sufficiently skilled reedmaker to make sure that any harmful effects of scallopage are compensated for.

But I suspect that I'm not the only one who in his early years thought that scalloping might be the short path to stardom.

[Brian Lee]

When Generation starts scalloping their whistles, I might consider a scalloped chanter.

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

My old GHB teacher had a very old chanter that he had inherited from one of his teachers where there was a visible groove around the low G hole from decades of serious birl-playing. {Note to non-GHB players: birls are done with the pinky finger of the bottom hand in a lightning fast tap-curl motion; they're the bane of most pipers' existences.} Apparently, the original owner had been nicknamed "the strathspey king." I thought at the time "Hey, if my chanter looked like that, it might make playing birls a lot easier AND it would look like I had seriously played the heck out of my chanter!" Fortunately, like Roger, I came to my senses before I had sanded more than a few bits of sawdust off the thing...I've since discovered that the quickest and easiest way of playing birls is to practice them every single day for the rest of your life...

If a maker scallops the holes of his chanters, then that chanter has been designed to be scalloped like that. If the chanter is not scalloped, then don't f**kin' touch it. My Ó Bríain chanter is seriously scalloped-more so than chanters by any other maker that I have seen. My new Galloway chanter is also scalloped a bit, but definitely not as much.

[WannabePiper]

consider: when the fingers cover the toneholes, the chimneys are in effect part of the overall bore perturbations. For instance, changing the scalloping of the back d is likely to alter the tuning of the A's and other notes - something unlikely to be obvious to the novice who contemplates such an operation.
Bill

Slightly off topic, but.....How come it seems to be fairly common practice to add keys to a chanter after the fact? Wouldn't the new holes generate really drastic bore perturbations?

[billh]

...
Slightly off topic, but.....How come it seems to be fairly common practice to add keys to a chanter after the fact? Wouldn't the new holes generate really drastic bore perturbations?

Yep, they do. Adding holes after the fact can cause problems, especially something like Cnat or Bflat, etc. That's why I bore the holes for keys even if I don't fit them, if I've left key blocks on the chanter for later key fitting. I cover the unused holes with leather pads or thin wooden shims (or blu-tack, if it's my own chanter ).

Bill