What Is Up With This Writer?

[Nanohedron]

I guess it's just me.

No, it's not.

[emmline]

I may be mistaken, but aren't most nouns capitalized in German?

[djm]

I guess my point was not so much to disagree or to put anyone else's PoV down, but to read the text like Ulysses - just read the words and let their meaning come through instead of brain-cramping on grammar, sentence structure and spelling.

What struck me was how the writer's conviction that this is a good and worthwhile product came through so clearly. He definitely wants to help people understand the product's value, and wanting others not to give up too soon, but rather to work their way through the set-up complexities in order to get the full benefits of the device.

djm

[Doug_Tipple]

The technical product review in question reminds me of some of the ebay descriptions that are all jammed together in one long paragraph. One of the reasons for this is that the software at the website will bunch things together unless you write the HTML to separate what you have written into smaller paragraphs. When I look at the long, one-paragraph descriptions on ebay, my first inclination is not to even bother reading them because they are hard to follow.

Secondly, although the writer is enthusiatic about his approval of the product being reviewed, there is an overall lack of organization in the writing. The several ideas expressed in the piece are all jumbled together in a free-association manner. It takes time, skill, and practice to organize your writing so that the ideas that you are writing about will flow in manner that is easy to read and follow. I think that many of us who write quickly on the internet either do not have the skill or do not take the time to organize our thoughts. Sometimes we don't even read it through before we press the send button for all the world to see our misspellings and grammatical errors. However, I like the freedom of knowing that I am not going to be graded.

[fearfaoin]

It's really freaky that it's so much harder for me to read when every
letter is capitalized. Maybe it's because it screws up the "start of a
sentence" cues so my eyes take longer to parse each sentence.

I think the "speech recognition" and "artificial inteligence" angles
are negated by the misspelling of "Receintly" and "Equiptment".

[straycat82]

Perhaps he just thought that each of his words were of extreme importance and thus gave each one the capital treatment?

[BillChin]

It's really freaky that it's so much harder for me to read when every
letter is capitalized. Maybe it's because it screws up the "start of a
sentence" cues so my eyes take longer to parse each sentence.

I think the "speech recognition" and "artificial inteligence" angles
are negated by the misspelling of "Receintly" and "Equiptment".

Actually, for a convincing AI program typos and bad grammar might be added in, to make it more human like. The day is coming, if it isn't here already.

[Nanohedron]

I guess my point was not so much to disagree or to put anyone else's PoV down, but to read the text like Ulysses - just read the words and let their meaning come through instead of brain-cramping on grammar, sentence structure and spelling.

Not all of us were on about that at all. The effect of capitalisation mode on the voice of the text was mainly what I found entertaining. Spelling and grammar were a non-issue.

What struck me was how the writer's conviction that this is a good and worthwhile product came through so clearly.

I will also echo the observation that capitalisation made the text lose any normal flow it would have had and so it became difficult to read freely. So, for me, clarity was very much compromised. It could be got, but not without some going-over. That, by example, is poor composition, no matter what the intent.

He definitely wants to help people understand the product's value, and wanting others not to give up too soon, but rather to work their way through the set-up complexities in order to get the full benefits of the device.

djm

Yes, I got that eventually. Seemed like a friendly and helpful address to the reader, but I had to ignore the ubiquitous and eccentric capitalisation to get that, and it wasn't easily done. But I'm funny that way: I always get a "voice" out of writing, and that voice is determined by a host of things including, as I found out here, capitalising every word in the text, something I don't recall ever having encountered before. And it did get in the way, and so my first impulse was and remained to ignore the text altogether. I had to force myself to read it. So, the writer's device possibly served to sabotage the message depending on who's reading. Delivery counts.

[Cynth]

I may be mistaken, but aren't most nouns capitalized in German?

Yes, I think that is right. Here is what some German text (of which I understand not a word) would look like:

Man findet das Wort „deutsch“ als Sprachbegriff in seiner lateinischen Form „theodisce“ erstmals im Jahre 786 n.Chr. im Synodenbericht des päpstlichen Nuntius Gregor von Ostia. Dieser Bericht über zwei Synoden, die in England stattfanden, wurde sowohl auf Latein als auch in der Volkssprache verlesen. Unklar bis heute ist allerdings, ob 786 tatsächlich damit die im Gebiet des späteren Deutschlands gesprochene Volkssprache gemeint war. Ein wenig deutlicher wird die Verbindung zum „deutschen Sprachraum“ erst zwei Jahre später bei einer Anklage gegen den bayrischen Herzog Tassilo auf dem Reichstag

Here it is what it would look like with all the words capitalized:

Man Findet Das Wort „Deutsch“ Als Sprachbegriff In Seiner Lateinischen Form „Theodisce“ Erstmals Im Jahre 786 N.Chr. Im Synodenbericht Des Päpstlichen Nuntius Gregor Von Ostia. Dieser Bericht Über Zwei Synoden, Die In England Stattfanden, Wurde Sowohl Auf Latein Als Auch In Der Volkssprache Verlesen. Unklar Bis Heute Ist Allerdings, Ob 786 Tatsächlich Damit Die Im Gebiet Des Späteren Deutschlands Gesprochene Volkssprache Gemeint War. Ein Wenig Deutlicher Wird Die Verbindung Zum „Deutschen Sprachraum“ Erst Zwei Jahre Später Bei Einer Anklage Gegen Den Bayrischen Herzog Tassilo Auf Dem Reichstag

I guess my point was not so much to disagree or to put anyone else's PoV down, but to read the text like Ulysses - just read the words and let their meaning come through instead of brain-cramping on grammar, sentence structure and spelling.

What struck me was how the writer's conviction that this is a good and worthwhile product came through so clearly. He definitely wants to help people understand the product's value, and wanting others not to give up too soon, but rather to work their way through the set-up complexities in order to get the full benefits of the device.

djm

I think no one is intending to be unkind to the person who is giving the advice. I agree with you that this person is clearly really trying to help others and is very much concerned with their safety in bad weather. That does come through.

Some of us do like to "brain-cramp" a bit about words and language and writing and legibility, though. It can be sort of a hobby. When you read something that has been written in a peculiar way----in this case it seems that it would have been much easier to write the paragraph without using all the capital letters, so it really is a curious thing----you want to talk to someone about it to see if it really is as strange as it seems and to see if you can figure out what the reason for it is. It is sort like seeing a bird you've never seen before and wondering if it is as unusual a sighting as it seems to be.

I don't think anyone thinks all writing needs to be the same. But some writing---like that in the paragraph Dale showed---serves its purpose best, in my opinion, when it is painstakingly examined for "correctness" and clarity. Again, I am not intending to put down the person giving the information---I am just looking at the writing. Sure, I got the idea but I had to work awfully hard to get it---that might not matter much in this particular case, but in other situations making the reader work too hard might have serious consequences---you might not get your point across because people quit trying to read your writing---as I imagine many have quit trying to read mine at this point . I realize you know this and I'm just saying that for some of us it is interesting to discuss what the problem is with writing that is hard to read.

In other kinds of writing, over-attention to "correctness" might interfere with the writer's purpose. In trying to find some information about Fanny Burney I came across this advice given to her concerning the writing of her letters:

Crisp's advice to Burney in a letter of 1773 was timely:

If once You set about framing studied letters, that are to be correct, nicely grammatical & run in smooth Periods I shall mind them as no others than newspapers of intelligence; I make this preface because You have needlessly enjoin'd me to deal sincerely, & to tell you there is no fault in an Epistolary Correspondence, like stiffness, & study – Dash away, whatever comes uppermost – the sudden sallies of imagination, clap'd down on paper, Just as they arise, are worth Folios, & have all the warmth and merit of that sort of Nonsense, that Is Eloquent in Love – never think of it being correct, when you write to me.

Sometimes we don't even read it through before we press the send button for all the world to see our misspellings and grammatical errors.

This is what really bothers me. I can certainly understand not being able to write very well, for reasons of poor education, lack of practice, lack of time, many things, and we are all better at some things than others. But to not even read something through to catch the mistakes one can find seems very disrespectful to the reader. I have to check the google for spelling all the time---I'm sure I miss some mistakes, but dang, a person can at least try. And typographical errors, okay, we all make them but read through your thing once and try to catch a few a least. It gets to the point where you feel you are deciphering something rather than reading it!!


A comparison:

It Works Great If You Take The Time To Read The Directions First. It Took Me About 15 Min. To Set Up And That Includes Getting The FIPS Codes Off The Internet. I Read All The Bad Reviews And Figured Out That Other People Didn't Read And Follow The Directions Correctly. Directions Are Easy To Follow And Understand And Even If You Make A Mistake Setting It Up, It Lets You Know You Made A Mistake. I Have Had Mine For 3 Months Now And It Works Flawlessly. You Can Set It So It Sounds The Alarm And Then Comes On To Tell You What The Alert Is Which Is The Way I Have Mine Set Up. After A Few Min., It Will Turn Itself Back Off And Be Ready For The Next Alert. As Long As You Read The Directions FIRST, You Wont Be Dissapointed. Receintly We Had Tornados Come Thru Our Area And This Weather Radio Saved My Life By Warning Me In Advance As To The Aproaching Weather. It Really Does Work. This Weather Radio Is Replacing My Old Radio Shack Radio Which Still Works Great. Reception Is Good, You May Have To Move It Around To Get The Best Reception. If You Put In The Right FIPS Codes, You Wont Get False Alarms. The Direction Booklet Tells You The Web Site To Get The FIPS Codes. Also, There Is No Difference Between The 100, 100b, Or The 100c. I Called Midland About This. All The Bad Reviews I Contribute To Not Reading And Following The Directions And Impatience. You Can Check NOAA'S Web site And They Will Tell You About Any Weather Radio Issues Or Recalls. Midland Had One On An Older One But Not On This One. I Check Things Out Before I Buy Them Especially Something As Important As This. Just A Note, I Come From New Orleans--Katrina--. Need I Say More As To The Importance Of Equiptment That Works Right.

It works great if you take the time to read the directions first. It took me about 15 min. to set up and that includes getting the FIPS codes off the internet. I read all the bad reviews and figured out that other people didn't read and follow the directions correctly. Directions are easy to follow and understand and even if you make a mistake setting it up, it lets you know you made a mistake. I have had mine for 3 months now and it works flawlessly. You can set it so it sounds the alarm and then comes on to tell you what the alert is which is the way I have mine set up. After a few min., it will turn itself back off and be ready for the next alert. As long as you read the directions FIRST, you wont be dissapointed. Receintly we had tornados come thru our area and this weather radio saved my life by warning me in advance as to the aproaching weather. It really does work. This weather radio is replacing my old Radio Shack radio which still works great. Reception is good, you may have to move it around to get the best reception. If you put in the right FIPS codes, you wont get false alarms. The direction booklet tells you the web site to get the FIPS codes. Also, there is no difference between the 100, 100b, or the 100c. I called Midland about this. All the bad reviews I contribute to not reading and following the directions and impatience. You can check NOAA's web site and they will tell you about any weather radio issues or recalls. Midland had one on an older one but not on this one. I check things out before I buy them especially something as important as this. Just a note, I come from New Orleans--Katrina--. Need I say more as to the importance of equiptment that works right.

[Nanohedron]

I think Cynth's helpful comparison makes my point.

[djm]

Sorry, But I Found That Second Version To Be Extremely harD tO reaD foR somE reasoN.

So how did you manage with Ulysses?

djm

[Jack]

I may be mistaken, but aren't most nouns capitalized in German?

All are.

[djm]

Alle sind.

djm

[Innocent Bystander]

I used to know people in Kentucky who wrote like that. They were just people who didn't get a good education. It's a shame that we, who should know better, can be so swayed by the style as to be distracted from the substance.

[MTGuru]

I may be mistaken, but aren't most nouns capitalized in German?

IIRC, you can blame the Grimm brothers for this. When not compiling fairy tales, Jakob decided, based on his idiosyncratic theory of grammar, that nouns are the "main words" (Hauptwort means noun in German) and deserved to be capitalized. This wasn't so odd at the time (early 19th cent). Capitalizing nouns and other words was also common in English to show emphasis, along the lines that we use voice stress when speaking. As good examples, see the handwritten drafts of US Declaration of Independence or US Constitution.

During the recent spelling reform (Rechtschreibreform) movement in Germany, there was a move to eliminate the capitalization of nouns. But except for casual writing and cool Internet usage, it never caught on. In fact, the whole spelling reform more or less flopped with the German public, and the last I heard its status is still up in the air.

BTW, if people wonder why I'm always eager to jump in on these language related questions ... I'm a linguist by profession and training, so I can't help myself.