relying on the written note

[danthsmith]

I leasrnt sight reading for the guitat and never have much trouble memorising a tune then playing it my own way but cant seem to get awaty from the sheet music with the whistle. I am tarting to add embelishments etc but n they never seem to go into memory without the visual trigger of the dots on the page. Not ideal for something that is a folk music that has onle had formanl notation tacked onto it

[talasiga]

......I am tarting to add embelishments etc but
......

The best way to tart embellishments is wear really cheap and nasty , fire engine red lipstick when you play the whistle. But be warned: jigs can be a bit of a drag when one is all tarted up.

[Tony McGinley]

Be very very careful when Tarting!!!!



- - - where you put your Chiff & Fipple!!

[izzarina]

Because of my classical background, I find that I rely on the dots far too much. I have been trying very hard to get away from that, though, and only have them in front of me if I'm having a hard time figuring out a note just in the listening. I'm hoping that I'm somehow achieving somewhat of a balance, but who knows. For me, they are a crutch. I probably don't need the dots in reality, but in my mind I do, so I use them in a least a small capacity.

[Stellatum]

Thanks for all your replies. I just had a thought: there is one limited advantage to using the dots in conjunction with (not instead of) listening, which is that it helps you understand the traditional ways that certain sequences of written notes are played.

For example, if I follow along on paper while I listen to hornpipes, I discover that one typical ending for a hornpipe is usually written as three of the same quarter notes in a row; but it's played as quarter-note/dotted-eighth-note/sixteenth note half a step down/quarter-note.

So, if I find a hornpipe written that I've never heard played, I have a better idea how to translate it. Though for all that, anyone with hornpipes sunk deeply into his brain would know, anyway.

[mamakash]

Now, I read somewhere that you should never, never, no matter what, learn from sheet music; that even if it's a short-cut, it'll mess you up in the long run; that a real whistler will be able to tell which of your tunes you've learned by sight and which by ear.

I've recently gone back and pulled out both sheet music and recordings of tunes I "learned" years ago. When I was in the early stages of learning, I was eager to try out these new tunes. My fingers wern't always moving in the right sequence or in the right tempo and I was paying more attention to hitting all the right notes. The result never sounded quite right and didn't mimic what was played on the recording. The visual aid of notation told me what notes to play but often stumbled me on how to play them. I also factor in that I also couldn't pick up subtle factors like "swing" or "lift" and couldn't get the feeling into what I was trying to learn.
Now when I sit down with recording and "notation"(because it's not really sheet music, I'm not playing a piano), my fingers know where to go and how to play. I'm not really concerned with playing a wrong note. I try to copy the way the piece is played. It's far harder to correct a tune if you've learned it incorrectly, it gets mentally stuck and then it's almost impossible to "hear" the way it is actually played. It's not the notes that throw me, it's the rhythm or time or pattern or whatever you might call it. Notation seems to confuse this as the tune never looks like it sounds.
I like notation because I have a hard time remembering notes in sequence(I have a hard time remembering anything in sequence).
This is just a hobby for me, as I'm sure it is for you. I enjoy trying different ways of learning but know I don't have the time, patience, or dexterity that others have. If I can make a little progress or find a different way of tackling music, it feels like a success. I'm better than I was when I started . . . too many years ago to mention.

[walrii]

Sheet music is written communication and has the advantages (permanent, easily transmitted, compact) and disadvantages (non-interactive, incomplete, subject to interpretation) that any written communication has.

If I describe a bird in words or draw a picture, those communications are useful for describing the bird to others in a permanent, compact, easily transmitted form, but they are not a substitute for the bird. I have several books on bird-watching with many words and pictures in them. I keep them handy and refer to them often but I spend most of my time watching the birds.

[MarcusR]

Some people have the talent or ”gift” that enables them hear the melody in their head by reading the notation. These people can then directly make out variations, rythm changes and make additional notes without even playing the piece.
I’m at the opposite end. I don’t hear anything when I try to read sheet music, it just tells me what finger to lift, and about for how long to keep it off the tube. I have to play it, note by note, to get an idea what it is suppose to sound like. So without any recordings or prior experience of the tune I’m completely lost, and the result is usually something very far from how others will play it.
I once had abc files as my primary source for learning tunes. I ended up sounding like a living midi-file. Now I don’t even bother to try to learn a tune if I haven’t heard it a few times in person or got it on CD.
But once I got the tune in my head, the written notation gives me a good start to get on track.

I have also come to realize that there are very few tunes that I have learned to play that I actually can recall. It's almost all muscle memory.
Once someone else gets started, my fingers start to move but I have no clue where we are going until we are about half way into the tune.

Alzheimer’s?

/MarcusR

[Roger O'Keeffe]

I've managed to resist the temptation to whistle while driving.

Clear evidence of lack of commitment here.

[TonyHiggins]

I look at sheet music as written language and hearing music like hearing the language spoken. If a person spoke no English (or whatever language), never heard it spoken, and was told only what sound each letter represented, then proceeded to form words from the letter combinations, well, the result would be obvious. Even hearing a new language spoken, it's difficult or impossible to speak with the native's accent. Of course, the best result will come from as much hearing as possible. (Actually, a combination of hearing and trying.)
Tony

[Susu]

"Writing down ITM for beginners is a new (and I daresay American) phenomenon.

I can usually figure out simple melodies (like hymns) by ear. I find it amazing that one would be able to learn a jig or a reel just by hearing it. (I'm not doubting it, just marveling at it.) Honestly, I can't even always tell the individual songs apart.
I have a hard enough time playing them when I have the music written down in front of me. All those runs of notes remind me of the finger-twisting exercises they made us play when we tried out for All-State band!

[A-Musing]

I'm a bit of a half-baked music "reader." And the same with "listening." But between 'em I've managed to learn a few tunes. Some are even starting to have a bit of "flavor." As my wizened old granny would say, "Glory Be!"

However ye get there...

[Anglorfin]

I'm starting to find out that I can play very accurately anything written in sheet music. Just give me a day and I'll replay whatever tune at full speed. Hell, I was ecstatic when I found myself playing "Rolling in the Ryegrass" on my fourth day of ever touching a whistle.

However I know that it means nothing. My dry version sounds nothing like a finished or 'polished' song. But I strongly advocate to the practicioner of any musical instrument that they at least learn the most rudimentary musical theory, including how to read sheet music and what notes your instrument can produce. Everything else is sort of pick up as you go. Eventually you will learn more theory as it becomes necessary to do so. And with experience comes playing from 'feelings' rather than just reading something.

As for the 'gift' of reading music and playing it in their head I've never met anyone who could do that without a lot of hard work. At least for me, most of the variations that I can play in my head can only be articulated if I have a full understanding of the musical theory involved. It's very similar to math. There's always a reason for everything. Beethoven must have been able to look at a piece and say to himself, "This sounds very upbeat," despite having never actually heard it. It's all math and patterns. The more theory you learn the easier it gets.

[anniemcu]

Hi, everyone. Newbie here. I've been playing obsessively for a couple of years--obsessively as in I like to have whistles in different rooms of the house so I'm never too far from one, though yes, I've managed to resist the temptation to whistle while driving. Even so, my rolls are just starting to really roll, and the natural rhythms are just starting to show through.

Now, I read somewhere that you should never, never, no matter what, learn from sheet music; that even if it's a short-cut, it'll mess you up in the long run; that a real whistler will be able to tell which of your tunes you've learned by sight and which by ear.

I rely on the written note, but I try to get it off the paper and into my head as quickly as I can. Tell me that's really OK. I suspect that I'll never really be good enough for it to matter, anyway.

I've recently discovered Michael Eskin's videos, which are a big help. Do I really have to lose the crutch of getting the music into my head by following along with sheet music while I listen?

Swallow not all that is offered, for it may choke you.

[fancypiper]

I have found that if I learn a tune from the dots, I have to know the name of the tune before I can play it.

If I learn by ear, I can play the tune, but I don't know the name unless someone tells me several times.

If I learn from the dots, I also listen to all the recordings I have of that tune (20 GB of tunes in ogg vorbis format, so I can usually find several versions) and I end up with a "composite" of the different versions. Then I mess with the tune, trying the ornaments I am good at and leaving out the techniques I can't yet do and it ends up being "my version" of a tune, which seems to keep changing.

I don't really consciously do different variations, they just seem to pop out, sometimes fitting the tune, sometimes not working at all. Then I try to eleminate the stuff that "doesn't work"