O'Riordan - Is it worth that much?

[Jim Wright]

For a guy that ain't from Texas .. you make a lot of sense .. you ever get down this way ... feel free to visit Texas ... we like straight talk.

And ... nice way to put beans in bellies ... you "probably" not half bad to be around!!!

I'll do that Jim. I got myself a banjo a week or so ago so I should fit in OK down there.

Doc

Well .. you might want to leave the hat and the kilts at home .... just a friendly suggestion!!! LOL!!!!

[manu.bande]

Hi Doc

if you like we can make a trade : a whistle for a 15 people Lasagna's portion, belive me , I can make the best lasagna on planet earth !

Or , you give me the O'Riordan and I send you a 15 people Lasagna's portion once a week for 6 months !


All the best

Manuel

Now you're talking! Wish I'd known I could swing that kind of deal before I put the dumb thing on eBay.

Can you really get good lasagna noodles in China?

Doc

Oh yes


good lasagnas noodles , spaghetti noodles , pizza noodles , macaroni noodles , whatever you want !


Manuel

[Doc Jones]

For a guy that ain't from Texas .. you make a lot of sense .. you ever get down this way ... feel free to visit Texas ... we like straight talk.

And ... nice way to put beans in bellies ... you "probably" not half bad to be around!!!

I'll do that Jim. I got myself a banjo a week or so ago so I should fit in OK down there.

Doc

Well .. you might want to leave the hat and the kilts at home .... just a friendly suggestion!!! LOL!!!!

But can I bring the cat? If I don't play it a couple of times a week the tuning gets shoddy.

Doc

Doc

[Doc Jones]

Hi Doc

if you like we can make a trade : a whistle for a 15 people Lasagna's portion, belive me , I can make the best lasagna on planet earth !

Or , you give me the O'Riordan and I send you a 15 people Lasagna's portion once a week for 6 months !


All the best

Manuel

Now you're talking! Wish I'd known I could swing that kind of deal before I put the dumb thing on eBay.

Can you really get good lasagna noodles in China?

Doc

Oh yes


good lasagnas noodles , spaghetti noodles , pizza noodles , macaroni noodles , whatever you want !


Manuel

OK, I gotta ask... What's a "Pizza noodle".

Doc

[manu.bande]

OK, I gotta ask... What's a "Pizza noodle".

Doc

oh , it's just a pizza calzone with inside singapor noodles !


Manuel

[lemccullough]

Sounds like Tuilp Mania is in da house!

http://www.investopedia.com/features/cr ... ashes2.asp

L.E. McCullough

[emtor]

Sounds like Tuilp Mania is in da house!

I love whistles, but US $845 is a bit expensive to say the least.
Also, we are urged to bid early, which is madness, since that will only push the price way up.

[King Friday]

Not really madness, he just doesn't want the auction to not meet the reserve and have the whistle not sell. I had that happen twice trying to sell my last Chieftain, very annoying.

[m31]

He means it would be madness on the part of the buyer to bid early, and he's correct.

As a buyer, I don't like reserve auctions but theoretically this will attract some low ballers (especially newbies) to place lots of early bids and thus "excite" others into bidding, thus escalating the price. If something I like has a reserve, I just ask the seller what their reserve price is. If they don't tell me, I don't bid.

[emtor]

He means it would be madness on the part of the buyer to bid early, and he's correct.

That's what I meant. As the seller I would want people to bid early, and hopefully start fighting over an item, as this tends to push the price upwards.
As a buyer I would wait till the last few minutes of the auction before placing my bid.

[arnie]

I've never understood the collector mentality that entices people to pay obscene amounts of money for things. With all due respect to Pat (and LOT of respect is due) it's JUST A WHISTLE! A first rate whistle to be sure, but as far as a playable instrument goes, you can buy several first rate whistles for that kind of money. Same goes for an $800 Thin Weasel.
I think I speak for most whistle makers when I say that we price our instruments to reflect the cost of the materials plus the time and labor expended on making our instruments to bring in a fair and reasonable profit. We don't say "Let's see how much money we can soak gullible whistle players for this week". I for one would be embarassed if I saw one of my whistles being sold for such overly inflated prices. I know, caveat emptor and all that, but it just seems wrong.

I agree here. I have been able to compare lots of whistles at Colin Goldie's home in Germany. He has more than 40 diffent ones (You whistlermakers exchange a lot, Paul) and I found the Riordan a well-sounding and nicely built whistle, but there were whistles that were a lot cheaper and sounded better and had a better finish than the Riordan I saw. I think it's like prices in the world of art, it's all about the interest of the collectors. I myself stick to Impempe for a while, about $40,-.

[SBS144]

Another O'Riordan recently sold for a little over $800. It's reputation and availability is what drives the price up. Pat's reputation and whistles are highly respected. I think people are willing to pay more because of that. It's no different than buying antiques. May not be new, but there's a particular quality in it that makes a buyer want it more, and be more willing to pay the price.

[bepoq]

Hi all,

I've been doing some research on instrument makers recently, and what bothers me about this sort of price - particularly on O'Riordans and Olwell bamboos - is that they are going for so very much more than the makers got for them, but the makers are seeing none of the return (except when Patrick ebays his own stuff). If Patrick ebays his own stuff, I know that the money is going where it should - to the craftsman who made it, but even if I were to sell my O'Riordan CDEb set (metal with extra D tube in wood with handmade custom dark green leather case and an interesting history - PMs will be read with interest...)

...sorry, even in the unlikely event I were to sell that set, I say, or my Olwell G, I am not sure that I would feel right about making a $600-$800 (or $200 in the case of the Olwell) profit on another man's work just for having held on to it for a couple of years (well, I made the case myself). Not for a minute aiming this at Doc, his cause is good (although even with a good cause I still feel the maker is somehow getting short shrift) the flute store offers a good service and such, and I realize he paid heavily for the whistles himself. But what do you think about it all Doc, and also makers who seem to have stayed fairly silent on this sort of topic? I'm not sure of my conscience on this one and still trying to understand it, so no one get too upset or anything, but I would be very interested to hear people's understanding of the situation - particularly dealers and makers.

Tangentaly, I've got a 8 key Bb Grinter in Blackwood that I don't feel I play enough and have been toying with the idea of selling it on for a couple of years now, I wonder what that would fetch?

Cheers,

Ben

[PhilO]

We've been around and about this one before. Some have expressed that supply and demand rules and if someone wants to pay what others consider an exorbitant price, so be it. Others feel it's unfair and/or somehow verging on unethical. I think Dale expressed an opinion in another thread that I was mostly in agreement with. Generally, if the maker isn't upset, why should anyone else be, assuming the usual inflated payment for certain whistles that some really want to have whether to ogle and display and/or to play. There are some lines to be drawn though; for example, someone who continually orders whistles from a maker or otherwise amasses them at regular prices and then uses our forum, for example, for no other reason but to sell at inflated prices. I believe moderators have cut some posters off for this very reason if memory serves me well.

I wouldn't get up on a soap box about the above, but I'm not particularly enamored of such practices and in my gut do feel a twinge for certain makers like Pat who just makes the whistles and keeps them at about the same prices he feels are appropriate.

That said, I have Travelers in D/C set, Bflat/A set, Low G and D. The low G and D were purchased from a Board member years ago at about Pat's regular price; they were offered to me privately because the seller thought I would appreciate them (he was so right) and was a true gentleman operating in the spirit of what we say we love so much, not profit and price gauging. The Bflat/A set was purchased fairly recently from Pat directly. The D/C set I purchased in my only ever e-bay auction for $710. In addition to my rationalization that it was really two whistles and therefore not such an inflated price, the buyer advised (and I tended to believe him having a lot of back and forth with him) me that half the proceeds were going to a very specific charity connected to his circumstances at the time. I wanted those and do not feel "ripped off."

I don't intend to sell any of my Travelers and did not purchase them as an investment. BTW, the D/C set and Low D (3-piece) are very good whistles, but in my opinion not legendary in that they are so much better than several others I can think of. However, IMO, the Bflat/A set and Low G are the very best of their respective keys that I have ever played and I truly do not ever need any other whistles in those keys.

Yes, as you can see from the above mish-mash, I don't see this as a black and white objective issue. Also many things somehow take on an intrinsic value that makes some just want to own them, regardless of tone and playability. Like the mystique of certain cars ('57 Chevy, etc.), which also include a piece of history.

Whatever you pay for them, you should enjoy your whistles for your own reasons and not feel badly about having purchased them.

Philo (stepping down from soap box)

[Wanderer]

Well, I'm new to this making business, but not new to having an opinion

Prior to making and selling whistles, I have sold other maker's whistles for more than I bought them for.

I think there's a certain amount of family friendliness among musicians that you don't find in very many places in the rest of the world. Selling something for more than you bought it for is just considered capitalism in most of society, and it's how a great many people and businesses make a living. Almost everything you buy at the store is inflated in price (probably by around 200%)...the supermarket makes it's profit simply by being a convenient location for you to buy all your stuff.

Clarke buys megs from chinese manufacturers for far less than $3.00, and sells them at a profit. Phil Hardy reportedly has his whistles made at a factory as well (though he does say he voices each one when he gets them), and sells them at profit.

With a solitary craftsman, it's a little different, sure. But how much different? I've got a store "wholesale" price for my whistles that's far less than what I sell them to the public for. People looking to earn income by selling an item have to make their daily bread somewhere...either by inflating the retail price (in the case of a scarce item) or taking it out of the manufacturer's profits.

Pat's a real gentleman by not raising his prices, even in the face of serious demand and an obvious tolerance for a higher price. It's his choice not to raise his prices to what the market will bear, and so really, if he's losing out on the money, it's ultimately because that's his choice. While I believe I understand the admittedly noble reasons for that choice, I think it is inevitable that if someone will pay $800 for a $200 item, someone else will buy and sell that item at a profit.

I'm not so sure I'd keep my whistles so cheap in the same circumstance. Top name recorders and other instruments sell for many many times more than their non-demanded counterparts on just such a demand and reputation. If one day, my whistles could demand such a price (I'm not holding my breath! ) and I could make a comfortable living just selling whistles and not run off my market by raising the price, I'd likely do it.

Yeah, I think there's some profiteering when it comes to some popular scarce whistles like Pats or the late Glenn Schultz's. But I think if you look around, that kind of profiteering exists everywhere.