Fugitive embouchure

In The Woods · Post by **In The Woods** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:55 pm

Please, please someone tell me that they also have trouble with a fleeting embouchure: now you have it, now you don't. I've been playing with my
Tipple for a year now, and I have found the sweet spot (for me), and a lot of the time I can hit it just right. Then it sounds great. Other times, it's just a pallid ghost of a sound, wheezy and faint, and I can sound like this during the same practice; all I have to do is take the flute away from my lips, and then re-position it, and I've lost it!

So is this normally part of the learning roller coaster?

BTW: I highly recommend the Tipple as a first flute. Once you find the sweet spot, it will help you work on keeping it (I haven't got it nailed quite yet) and also to be precise with your fingering. It's gorgeous to look at, and it's a really marvelously ingenious musical instrument. If you haven't tried one, give it a whirl.

With best regards,

Steve Mack

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:03 pm

is normal...relax

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:17 pm

Steve, it happens for a lot longer than a year. I play mostly for short spurts lately, and now if I play for something like half an hour straight, my mouth muscles just kind of go spastic and my embouchure goes to hell. Kind of like it used to be before I became comfortable playing the flute.

Keep it up, give it time.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:23 pm

Charlie, I don't think that telling him that this is gonna go on for years is really encouraging, eh?

Lee Stanford · Post by **Lee Stanford** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:24 pm

I gave this response to another person on the forum, because I think it's quite effective. BTW I have a Tipple as well. It's a great flute.

Don't pucker your lips as if you're saying "oooooo" when you blow.
Shape your lips as if you're saying "eeeeeeeeeee"

I don't mean to actually voice the sylables. I'm only talking about the shape of the lips. Try it. When you say ooooo (rhyme with dew) your lips are round. When you say eeeeee (rhyme with tree) your mouth is elongated.

This will keep you from going really flat and bring the reedy sound out, as a result of wasting less air.

Watch Seamus Egan's mouth in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu26Y0DXyT8

If anyone can articulate my two cents a little better please do

Happy fluting

psychih · Post by **psychih** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:27 pm

it used to come and go like the wind when i first began years ago. then it was ok, until about two weeks ago? damn lips. the more i thought about it, the worse it got. so i went away and played world of warcraft for a bit, and came back to it, and got better. it's still a mystery to me.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:30 pm

The first three years are the hardest.

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:24 pm

If Matt Molloy has this problem, I don't feel all that bad...(I've heard there are some days he can't even make a sound on the flute).

Aanvil · Post by **Aanvil** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:40 am

michael_coleman wrote:If Matt Molloy has this problem, I don't feel all that bad...(I've heard there are some days he can't even make a sound on the flute).

Azusa!? Everything A to Z in the USA.

You are right down the street!

My father had a barber shop out there for all of my childhood and they are still out in San Dimas.

Do you play ITM with others locals?

Terry McGee · Post by **Terry McGee** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:04 am

If you find you often have problems routinely getting good results from your current flute, you might want to consider something with a dramatically different embouchure profile. Over the last 500 years the embouchure has developed from the renaissance/baroque circle, to the 19th century ellipse and finally the modern rounded rectangle - it would be silly to imagine that you would be equally happy at either end or in the middle of that development. And just because some famous players prefer one over the other, your mouth and your capacity to manipulate it may be very different.

The modern metal flute provides a good opportunity to try out the modern embouchure. Any music shop will have one - just express interest and they'll let you try it. The fingering is pretty similar - just remember to close the thumb key. If you find the modern metal flute easier than your usual flute, it suggests your usual flute is not ideal for you. If your flute is easier, then it probably means more practice is called for!

Terry

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:42 am

Denny wrote:Charlie, I don't think that telling him that this is gonna go on for years is really encouraging, eh?

Yeah, I shouldn't be posting late at night.

To clarify a little, it does go on for years, but the ratio of good time to bad time or on days to off days should keep getting higher. Not uniformly, but you should be making progress over the long haul. If you go a few months without your embouchure getting somewhat better, then it's time to look up a teacher. There should be some teachers in Charlottesville.

Il Friscaletto · Post by **Il Friscaletto** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:03 am

I think the longer you play, the level of embrochure control you want to achieve gets higher. Sure, I can always get a pretty good tone, but I don't always get the edge I'm striving for. So the challenge of embrochure can go on for years, if you are fussy enough.

I think Terry's suggestion of trying a different flute is a good one. It will help give you perspective. Just make sure it's a good flute.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:26 am

Well, again, what's being described is hardly abnormal one
year in.

As to embouchure holes, the Tipple's is circular.
It's remarkable the sound Doug gets out of his circular
embouchure holes, as these have often been associated
with less volume. I find these satisfying to play.

However the standard oval embouchure gives you more
surface--not that it's a slam dunk, you know.
But it seems to me the first place to go as an option,
especially as it tends to give a dark sound much
associated with Irish flute playing.

I've tried the rounded rectangle embouchure hole you get
on Boehm flutes. It's probably easier to play but I
don't much like the sound--I've played a wooden flute
with this set up. It's very bright. To me it sounds like
another instrument entirely from the Irish flutes
I like the best. Your mileage or preferences may vary,
obviously.

There is something to be said for trying, at one
year or so, a wooden flute with a standard oval embouchure hole,
IMO. Whether or not one's embouchure is fleeting.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:14 am

chas wrote:
Denny wrote:Charlie, I don't think that telling him that this is gonna go on for years is really encouraging, eh?
Yeah, I shouldn't be posting late at night.

To clarify a little, it does go on for years, but the ratio of good time to bad time.........

Man, I really have to disagree, this is not the sort of problem that should go on for years. I'm going to respectfully suggest that the reason it goes on for a very long time for some folks has to do primarily with one or two practice habits:

1) Playing more than one flute as a learner

2) Lack of consistent (daily), well thought out (proven) practice plan.

As soon as I quit dicking around trying to play a bunch of different flutes (be it changing every month or three, or having several lying around that I'd play during a given practice session), and stopped fooling around during my "practice" sessions, my problems with embouchuric consistancy curiously abated post haste.

Go figure.

Loren

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:57 am

And I'll disagree with you, too, Loren (at least partially).

I'm only playing one flute (and have been practicing serial monogamy for several years now), have a steady practice habit, but I do have problems with lost embouchure on rare occaisions...for example:

1) When I'm really, stinking tired...my muscles just don't get the lips working right at these times.

2) When my ears are really stuffed up due to a cold. allergies, etc. For some reason, since I can't hear myself well, I'm constantly tinkering to find the embouchure that should be giving me the sound I'm accustomed to.

3) When I've had a few too many beverages...

Seriously though, I have annoying mold allergies, and reason #2 happens more than I'd like it to. 99% of the time if I don't think my tone is good, my ears are stuffed up. If I take a decongestant, I miraculously sound better about 1 hour later.

Eric