What's wrong the 1 piece Dixon ?

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Loren
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Post by Loren »

Bart Wijnen wrote:About the Rottenburg: before the well tempered tuning the majord third was always flat, maybe it´s tuned like before that time?

Yes, truly accurate historical reproduction instruments, are going to reproduce whatever scale (tuning temperament) was favored by the maker, to fit the music at the time.

It doesn't help that many people are playing this instruments at a pitch other than what they were originally designed to play at.




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Post by Loren »

Lee Stanford wrote:Are you a flute maker?

Lee

You know Lee, I'm honestly not certain I know how to answer that at the moment. Let it suffice to say that I am not currently making flutes.


If you shop around for a while, it is possible to find a used Pratten style flute for $600.


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Post by chas »

Loren wrote:
Bart Wijnen wrote:About the Rottenburg: before the well tempered tuning the majord third was always flat, maybe it´s tuned like before that time?

Yes, truly accurate historical reproduction instruments, are going to reproduce whatever scale (tuning temperament) was favored by the maker, to fit the music at the time.

It doesn't help that many people are playing this instruments at a pitch other than what they were originally designed to play at.
Yes, given that the Rottenburgh and Grenser are based on flutes from within a year or two of each other, the maker certainly had quite an effect on the scale. I have no idea how mass-produced these were; if the shops made them to order, it's also quite possible that a buyer would have some say in it.

I gotta say, A415 is da bomb. Of course, it's nice to have an A440 midsection for those "Baroque Eflat" sessions.
Charlie
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Denny
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Post by Denny »

Loren wrote:You know Lee, I'm honestly not certain I know how to answer that at the moment.
Loren...this identity thing is getting out of hand.

Turn off the PC and go do something!



No! Now!
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Loren
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Post by Loren »

Denny wrote: Loren...this identity thing is getting out of hand.

Problem? What Problem? I've got lots of identities. Where's the problem? :lol:


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Post by Bart Wijnen »

Loren wrote: Keys were not added to make flutes louder.
Q. Well, my dear Watson, this asks for a little deductive thinking I guess. Was it possible to play semitones crossfingered on 19th century flutes?

A. No sir.

Q. Do you have any idea why?

A. Well sir, the tone holes got bigger and the tapering changed allthough there are some people who have serious doubts about the last thing.

Q. Nevermind, let them be, there have allways been fools and there will be in the future. Why, do you think, did they change the flute?

A. To make it more loud sir, the orchestras got bigger and louder and the flute had to match up with them.

Q. Quite right, dear Watson, but the players couldn't produce semitones crossfingered, didn't they want to play these tones??

A. On the contrary sir, the music became more and more chromatic during the ages.

Q. Right you are. So what did the flute-makers add to the flute?

A. Keys sir.

Q. Right. So isn't it more logical to assume that keys were added to play the flute chromatically than to play it louder?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You see my dear Watson, it's all about common sense, you got it in the end, I fear our good friend Loren never will, do you?

A. No sir.

:wink:
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Post by Matt_Paris »

Well, M. Holmes, there is one terrible flaw in your explanation: the keys were not added to flutes in the 19th century, but at the end of the 18th, on flutes with narrow bores and small holes, that were not loud at all (see the Grenser and Tromlitz around 1780).

Even the english flutes at the very beginning of the 19th century had small holes and could still cross finger semitones, despite their 6 to 8 keys. It is also possible to cross finger semitones on french 19th century flutes, even if they had 5 to 8 keys, or much more in Tulou system.

The wide bores and big holes arrived after the keys. Keys were made indispensable by big holes, but they were first added to facilitate some passages and trills, and not to make the flute louder.
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Post by Loren »

Nice story Bart, however multiple keys showed up on flutes before the bores and tone holes got large.



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Loren
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Post by Loren »

Ahh, I see Matt beat me to it, I type too slowly :lol:


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Post by jim stone »

Well, anyway, elves don't play prattens.
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Bart Wijnen
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Post by Bart Wijnen »

Loren wrote:Nice story Bart, however multiple keys showed up on flutes before the bores and tone holes got large.



Loren
Loren wrote:
Bart Wijnen wrote:
I do, the last great composer ever to write a piece for the flute (before the Boehm thing arrived) was Mozart, not with too much eager though. After him, no Beethoven (well, not really), Dvorak, Schumann, Brahms, Tjaikovky or you name them. The orchestras got bigger and louder and the flutemakers desperately tried to keep up.

Keys were not added to make flutes louder.
What I was saying (or at least trying to say) was that flutemakers had to match up with the rest of the orchestra and thus the keys became unavoidable.

I was not saying that keys were added to make the flutes louder. This makes no sense. Like Matt stated, and you and I know, they were there before.

Really, you're the overall champion of misreading other posts on this forum. :)
Bart
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Post by jim stone »

Bart, might you please lighten up on the personal stuff?
We try to be civil; your participation is appreciated.

Frankly this has been a confusing discussion, although
a useful one, IMO, because it wasn't plain that folks
were disagreeing. Such is cyberspace.
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Loren
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Location: Loren has left the building.

Post by Loren »

Bart Wijnen wrote:I was not saying that keys were added to make the flutes louder. This makes no sense. Like Matt stated, and you and I know, they were there before.

Really, you're the overall champion of misreading other posts on this forum. :)

I didn't misread what you wrote, here are your exact words from one of your earlier posts (1st page, post #10):
Bart Wijnen wrote:
The main (though not only) goal to add more keys later on was to make the flute sound louder


Loren
(Edited to correct a spelling error, and add directions to the post I quoted)
Last edited by Loren on Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt_Paris
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Post by Matt_Paris »

Are Loren & Bart becoming the new Dave M & AndrewK ? ;)
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Post by Lee Stanford »

this is getting boooooooring.

Loren is that a tube of crazy glue in your avatar? man, I love that stuff.


here's a good one...

There were two peanuts in a subway station (for you, Loren the T! Boston Rules!!!!)

one of the peanuts was a salted.


get it, "a salted"


oooooh!
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