six month flute challenge: goodbye whistles!

[rama]

threads like these make having and listening to a teacher invaluable.

tho thongue or noth tho thongue, that ith the quethion

[Jennie]

Woo hoo!
I'm enjoying this discussion and all the points being brought up.

Eventually I'll probably go back to playing whistle. Though I'll play it because there is a tune I think is especially suited to whistle, or to kick up the octave in a session, or because I feel like playing whistle. Not because I suck at flute and want to impress more people by playing whistle, or because I'm giving my chops a break.

And I'm sure I'll figure out how to do tasteful tonguing in ITM. But not now, when I'm using it either as a leftover from my classical phrasing or when it's too hard to attack the note without it.

I already know how and when sheet music is useful. But my ear needs better training. So I'll eventually use sheet music again to compare settings, or get the skeleton of a tune, but not in front of my face when I'm playing.

I am hoping that this 6-month diet will make me a stronger flute player, one who plays in a good traditional style and can catch a tune on the fly. We'll see!

Jennie

[treeshark]

tho thongue or noth tho thongue, that ith the quethion

I never wear them, I find they chafe...

[Denny]

In short do it a lot, do it as best you can with all your heart and if you have talent it will out.

kinda like "shut up and play" innit?

[AaronMalcomb]

[treeshark]

In short do it a lot, do it as best you can with all your heart and if you have talent it will out.

kinda like "shut up and play" innit?

Sho' nuff!

[rama]

tho thongue or noth tho thongue, that ith the quethion

I never wear them, I find they chafe...

cork grease works for me, nice tight fit with no chafe

[AaronMalcomb]

So the person who posted first is asked to tacet?

I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion from my post but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and concede that perhaps it was poorly worded.

I never meant anybody should tacet (another non sequitur). I just wanted to keep the thread constructive and not get lost in marginalia.

[Congratulations]

I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion from my post but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and concede that perhaps it was poorly worded.

I, for one, thought your post was well-intentioned and well-conceived, and not at all poorly worded.

[Jennie]

I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion from my post but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and concede that perhaps it was poorly worded.

I, for one, thought your post was well-intentioned and well-conceived, and not at all poorly worded.

's okay, I wasn't offended. As I said, it is all good discussion.

I guess the question is whether or not a six-month haitus from these three activities (whistle playing, tonguing, and reading sheet music) is a worthwhile learning technique.

For me, the whistle-tonguing-sheet music fast is a commitment to improving my flute technique. If my doctor prescribed a chocolate or alcohol or bread fast, and I chose to accept it, probably my weight would decrease. Not something I would undertake lightly, nor adhere to indefinitely. I'm feeling that with a sense of purpose and lots of practice, I'll be able put all these things in their proper perspectives after six months. Right now they're weighing me down and getting in the way, just like extra poundage on the body. Fair analogy?

I suppose if I'd argued with him, my teacher would have come up with adapted suggestions. This seems like something I can handle, and having a time frame attached gives me a built-in assessment period.

Jennie

[Loren]

I guess the question is whether or not a six-month haitus from these three activities (whistle playing, tonguing, and reading sheet music) is a worthwhile learning technique.

Okay, I'll bite then: In my personal experience, having done essentially the same thing at one point not so long ago, I found that following a routine of only learning by ear, no tonguing, and no whistle playing, helped both my flute and whistle playing immensely. I never did tongue much on the flute, but, by concentrating solely on flute for a while, and with the help of a good instructor, focusing me on what good ITM flute playing sounds and feels like, I came to learn what a giant difference there is between the two instruments with regards to articulation and such.


I could go on an on about the benifits I've seen by following a similar approach the the one you outlined, but that should give you a taste.

If one is willing to pay an instructor good money for lessons, then one should be willing to accept that this teacher has a good reason for asking certain things of one. When I've gone to my ITM teacher for lessons, she has, at times, told me to do things that, a number of years ago I would balked at. However I've wised up enough (hard to believe, I know) to realize that she probably knows what she's talking about, and I sure as heck don't (know what I'm talking about that is, I usually understand what she's talking about just fine.)

Sometimes, a bit of blind faith is involved, however if you do your research and find a good player, who has experience teaching, and has turned some good players through a given teaching method, then you have to suspend your disbelief, embrace "the plan" your teacher has for you, and be ready to "sweat white hot beads....." Okay, well maybe not that last part, but there is some work involved

Jennie, my advice is to record youself now, playing two jigs, two reels and two airs - one each of the tunes you feel you play best, and worst. Do this once on whistle, and once again on the flute (they needn't be the same tunes for each instrument) File this away for 6 months. Don't listen sooner, because things will likely get worse for a bit, before they get better.

in 6 months, repeat the process, using tunes that you currently (in 6 months from now) feel are you best and worst. Then break out the old tape, and listen to it first, then the recent recording. I firmly believe, you'll be rather (pleasantly) amazed at the results.


Enjoy the journey, its far more interesting and important than the destination.


Loren

[Aanvil]

The cutting out of tounging for a while.... this I understand.

I didn't understand until I decided to not do it.... and that was well... about six months ago

Its seems opposite thinking to how I was taught all those years on the Boehm.


Its a that "when you have a hammer" situation... every attack is a nail


It was a crutch and I didn't even know it.

So I just had never really explored all the other options

It has helped.

[m31]

...Tunes can be learned on the flute just as easily as the whistle...

Yes and no. It takes a lot more effort to play a flute, especially for a beginner who hasn't developed a good embouchure and breath support. Worrying about tone production and catching the next breath will definitely detract from learning a melody, especially if it contains large intervals. Once tone production and breath control are second nature, then it won't really matter which instrument is used for learning tunes.

As for giving up sheet music, why do it for only six months? That's like quitting smoking for six months and then starting back up again. If you can get yourself to where you've gone six months without it, why not give it up forever?

Because reading music is handy, even in ITM, and is an extensible skill (e.g., transcription and composing). Few would argue with that. Stop reading and the skill goes rusty, like anything else. Now if you meant giving up one's reliance (addiction) of sheet music, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing better than putting on your favourite CD and playing or humming along over and over again.

[Flutered]

I encourage spending more time discussing the benefits of sticking to the flute in lieu of the whistle, learning by ear, and avoiding tonguing instead of saying "I do the opposite and it works fine for me."

I think that 'Jennie' has some proficiency on the whistle and presumably knows a good few tunes and how they go and plays them in a good style. I think when one takes up a new instrument, there is a struggle to get some proficiency on it and to make that music in your head come out so that it makes sense. This can be frustrating and it is important to enjoy playing music.
Therefore having a good blast of tunes on the whistle can be very invigorating and necessary whilst one works on technique for the flute, fiddle, box whatever. The music has come to come from the head and heart and one must nurture that if one has it. Of course, for a real beginner who doesn't play ITM on another instrument and therefore doesn't know the music, sticking to the new instrument is probably the best route.
As regards sessions, I find it useful to have a whistle. I'll play the flute but I'll also choose to put it down and pick up the whistle when the tempo just gets beyond me and I'm losing it. I'd rather contribute on the whistle than play poorly on the flute just for the sake ot it.

[Flutered]

And I should add, I agree completely with the idea of learning by ear and using the throat more than the tongue to articulate. Way to go........