Mary, Queen of Scots or Elizabeth I?

[BigDavy]

Hi Cran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglophobia

http://www.rootsweb.com/~pictou/clearncs.htm


Anti English sentiment is quite common here Cran, especially in relation to sport. Here they say that the Scots support 2 teams - Scotland and whoever is playing England.

http://www.nwlink.com/~scotlass/border.htm

If you are talking about the time before the union of the crowns then the border reivers and the highlanders would not properly be counted as Scots. In fact untill relatively recenently in historical terms the Gaels in Scotland would have been referred to as "Wild Irish" in the lowlands. It would take untill the 1800s before they would be accepted by the lowlanders. (probably because so many of them were forced into industrial areas due to the highland clearances).

http://www.scottish-history.com/clearances.shtml

David

[Jack]

Here they say that the Scots support 2 teams - Scotland and whoever is playing England.

I have actually heard that many times. I've always thought it was a joke, though. So it's actually supposed to be serious? Ooops.

Edit: I think also that a part of the reason why I've always took it to be light-hearted is because I've heard other versions such as "New Zealand supports 2 teams - New Zealand and whoever is playing Australia..."

[cowtime]

It's a greater version of the U. of WV vs Va Tech rivalry. Actually, maybe an equal version- you can really get hurt wearing the wrong logo in the wrong place.

Remember Cran, most of our ancestors in our mountains were Scots-Irish. They came here for a reason.

Back to the original topic-

I think as you study about these two women you will gain a lot of respect for Elizabeth. Tough woman who dealt with tough times in a man's world as not only an equal,but their ruler. No small accomplishment for her time. The turmoil of her youth may have given her the toughness, wisdom and skills to accomplish what she did.

Mary seems her opposite, typical woman of the position she was born to who became the pawn of political and religious factions.

This is a great thread.

[Walden]

Oklahoma vs. Texas is about as big a football rivalry as there is. In fact one of the guys on the ballot, this year, is running entirely on a platform of having home games in Oklahoma, rather than in the Cotton Bowl as is custom. Oklahoma went to war against Texas, back in the good old days. It was the Toll War. Governor Alfalfa Bill sent in the troops to stop Texas from charging admission to the Red River bridge.

[cowtime]

The thrill of football has always escaped me- I'm happy to say. Unfortunately, my husband and Va Tech alumni daughter are not the same. I have suffered through years of the stuff- another reason to dislike fall and winter.

[Martin Milner]

Ok.

Assume that you could only read about or know about one or the other. Which would it be, and why?

I would start with Elizabeth, as she achieved a heck of a lot more than Mary ever did. Mary's main claim to fame is as mother to James VI of Scotland, who was crowned King of England after Elizabeth's death.

For a potted history, I'd suggest you read up the BBC Website about both Elizabeth and Mary, starting here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/tu ... i_01.shtml

[Flyingcursor]

Oklahoma vs. Texas is about as big a football rivalry as there is. In fact one of the guys on the ballot, this year, is running entirely on a platform of having home games in Oklahoma, rather than in the Cotton Bowl as is custom. Oklahoma went to war against Texas, back in the good old days. It was the Toll War. Governor Alfalfa Bill sent in the troops to stop Texas from charging admission to the Red River bridge.

Ohio vs Michigan. That's the biggie around here.

[missy]

Ohio vs Michigan. That's the biggie around here.

Bengals vs the Browns
or
Bengals vs the Steelers

or on an even MORE local level
Elder vs. everyone else

(but I'll also give you that OSU game, of course on the Buckeye side!!)

[Wanderer]

Oklahoma vs. Texas is about as big a football rivalry as there is. In fact one of the guys on the ballot, this year, is running entirely on a platform of having home games in Oklahoma, rather than in the Cotton Bowl as is custom. Oklahoma went to war against Texas, back in the good old days. It was the Toll War. Governor Alfalfa Bill sent in the troops to stop Texas from charging admission to the Red River bridge.

Speaking of the Red River bridge...these days, doesn't it seem more like "The fertile grasslands formerly known as the Red River" bridge? I haven't actually seen a bonafide river under that bridge in years...(sigh)

The Red River Bridge was sometime I looked forward to crossing at the start of summer, because it meant that we were close to my grandparents' house, and the start of summer vacation

[Walden]

America is renowned the world over for its peerless ability to assimilate the novel. Poetry is coming a bit later, I'm told.

I reckon the world hasn't yet red Silverstein's Where the Sidewalk Ends.

[Walden]

Speaking of the Red River bridge...these days, doesn't it seem more like "The fertile grasslands formerly known as the Red River" bridge? I haven't actually seen a bonafide river under that bridge in years...(sigh)

I only ever went across it once in my life (well, once more to come back, but it was the same day), when I was 9 years old, and went to Six Flags.

[izzarina]

Ohio vs Michigan. That's the biggie around here.

Yeah, and Ohio ALWAYS wins (well, from what I understand...I was never into THE Ohio State University and their rivalries. Good thing I'm in NY now, huh? People in Ohio don't take kindly on those that don't root for their football teams )

Oh, and Missy, in MY part of Ohio it was the Steelers, but that's only because we were so close to Pittsburgh. Or the Browns, but there were way more Steelers fans.

[Flyingcursor]

Ohio vs Michigan. That's the biggie around here.

Bengals vs the Browns
or
Bengals vs the Steelers

or on an even MORE local level
Elder vs. everyone else

(but I'll also give you that OSU game, of course on the Buckeye side!!)

Yeah. I don't pay too much attention anymore because Ohio wins.

Wait, what's this got to do with Liz and Mary?

[Innocent Bystander]

I vote with Marmil.
You get more history with Elizabeth. She lasted longer. And Mary comes into it.

Elizabeth influenced events, and Mary failed to influence them.

Concerning the antipathy:
It's clear to the Scots (and Irish, and Scots/Irish) that the English have a different culture and a generally different approach to nearly everything.
It's not at all clear to the English (in general), and it comes as a great surprise that anyone could ever adopt a different approach (or culture) from the one they do themselves.
This only serves to raise Scots/Irish/Welsh dander.

[amar]

I go for Mary. She was full of life. Liz was just a sour dried up b*tch.

And I would recommend Stefan Zweig's biography.

http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Scots-Casse ... 0304314390