secret to playing fast??

[vomitbunny]

I've got .................poster's block....or something. I don't know. I can't come up with anything to say. I type stuff, then close it out without posting.

[Key_of_D]

I find keeping my fingers properly lubricated with WD 40 helps me play faster tunes.

[falkbeer]

One, though very obvious, piece of advice is to isolate and analyze the difficulties in a piece and practice them separately. If you, for instace, can play 3/4 of a piece without any difficulties and 1/4 with great difficulties, the obvious solution is not to play the whole piece over and over again. Just practice the passages that are an obstacle. It might be a rapid scale or an arpeggio, but isolate the problem. And then try to analyze why it! Then practice it slowly at first so the muscular memory will learn and then gradualy increase the speed.

If the answer to your analyze is, for instance, that an arpeggios is difficult in a piece it might be a good idea to practice your arpeggio skills in general.

The key word in learning difficult pieces is not only to use your fingers but also your experience and intelligence as a musican - analyze and isolate the problem and find the proper solution. It´s often a good idea to have a teacher or play the tune to an experienced friend. He/she can often cast new light on your difficulties and see it from another point of view.

And always remember - have fun!

/All the best, Falkbeer

[I.D.10-t]

I do sometimes wonder if the tempo is taken out of context. Many tunes are meant to be danced to and yet I have rarely seen anyone dance to the music being played (it's out there, I just haven't seen it often). It would seem that the dancers would put a kind of physical limitation to the rhythm and pace of a tune, not allowing the tune to move too fast or slow. Often one of the pieces of advice seems to be listen to the music, but I wonder if there is value in watching a good dancer also.

I hope the above paragraph made some sense.

[Cayden]

Watc hthe video of the Laictin Naoifa Ceili Band playing for sets. I have played music with many of the men in the video and their speed is just fine. Some energetic young modern dancers want it a bit quicker sometimes but not by a lot.

[walrii]

Micho was brilliant when it came to knowing how to leave spaces in the music that were just as musical as the notes.

Someone made that same comment on a thread a long while back and it clicked on a light bulb for me. Listening carefully to any good musician, you'll hear spaces in the music. The spaces add expression as straycat notes but they also give the playing a feeling of effortless movement, as if the player were just loafing along.

Another technique I've used with success is to learn the tune from back to front. Don't play the tune backwards! Learn the last half dozen bars first, then the half dozen bars before them and so on until you get to the start of the tune. The more difficult parts seem to come in the last half, so you'll work on them first. Also, as you play the tune, you will be going into more and more familiar music.

[jim stone]

Definitely there is an art to leaving things out, not just
in music either.

[StevieJ]

Loren, I haven't added anything to this thread because I hadn't read it, and now that I have, I don't have much to add, at least not about the mechanics of the issue... most of it has been covered pretty well.

However I don't think leaving notes out to create spaces is a good approach to playing fast. Most likely you'll just end up producing a very lame-sounding version of the tune. I like Micho Russell's playing but I think you need the natural authority that he had from his long life in Irish music to do what he did as convincingly as he did it. Consciously trying to emulate him is not likely to come across very well.

I also think that if a reel doesn't sound like anything much at all played slow, either it's a tune not worthy playing or, much more likely, the player hasn't understood the rhythm of the thing.

It took me years to be able to play Irish tunes slowly. I won't say I wish I hadn't wasted so many years trying to play them fast, but it takes an awful lot of listening and playing before the rhythm really grows into you, and when it does, good players' playing smacks you around the head with it. There are records of old-timers that I bought early on and never thought much of. Listening to them again 10 or 20 years later, yes the rhythm smacks you around the head.

It's at this point you realize that you have to bring out that same rhythm that clearly yourself. It won't just happen because you know what it sounds like played by X on a CD and you can play the notes.

I think most of us outsiders probably have to go through a process like this: you have to learn to play fast badly. Then learn to play slow well. Then learn to play fast well - which is probably something more than a matter of speeding up good slow playing.

Good luck.
Steve

[Bretton]

I can play jigs at about 92bpm and reels at about 116bmp and still have time to think enough to be creative by changing ornamentation and varriations a bit each time through the tune.

Is that slow?

I find the above speeds aren't quite fast enough (on most tunes), even for our local "laid back" session. I'm getting close, I think, but need to push myself a bit more.

I play mostly at our slow/learning session and I think that might be making me lazy as far as playing up to speed goes.

-Brett

[chas]

I also think that if a reel doesn't sound like anything much at all played slow, either it's a tune not worthy playing or, much more likely, the player hasn't understood the rhythm of the thing.

I've nothing to add, but this is so well said and so true that I just thought I'd like to see it again.

[aelfroy]

Jut want to thank Sponge for this thread. It reinforces some of my own beliefs. I especially agree with Ketida on the coming back to a tune on another day, to find the first time through, I have magically improved.

[aelfroy]

Jut want to thank Sponge for this thread. It reinforces some of my own beliefs. I especially agree with Ketida on the coming back to a tune on another day, to find the first time through, I have magically improved.

[Loren]

Watc hthe video of the Laictin Naoifa Ceili Band playing for sets. I have played music with many of the men in the video and their speed is just fine. Some energetic young modern dancers want it a bit quicker sometimes but not by a lot.

And people complain about Lunasa playing too fast!


Thanks for the link Peter, very nice.


Loren

[Loren]

I also think that if a reel doesn't sound like anything much at all played slow, either it's a tune not worthy playing or, much more likely, the player hasn't understood the rhythm of the thing.

My point, exactly.

It took me years to be able to play Irish tunes slowly. I won't say I wish I hadn't wasted so many years trying to play them fast, but it takes an awful lot of listening and playing before the rhythm really grows into you, and when it does, good players' playing smacks you around the head with it. There are records of old-timers that I bought early on and never thought much of. Listening to them again 10 or 20 years later, yes the rhythm smacks you around the head.

It's at this point you realize that you have to bring out that same rhythm that clearly yourself. It won't just happen because you know what it sounds like played by X on a CD and you can play the notes.

Are you of the school of thought then, that the rhythmic nuances can't be taught, by virtue of explanation, example and exercises? Or do you believe this approach can work?

I think most of us outsiders probably have to go through a process like this: you have to learn to play fast badly. Then learn to play slow well. Then learn to play fast well - which is probably something more than a matter of speeding up good slow playing.

Interesting, any chance you could put some sort of name to the "something" more? I mean aside from the physical (mechanical) ability to play uptempo. I'm trying to think if there's any physical skill (that wasn't risky, thus demanding some additional nerve) that I've ever learned which required "something more" when done "at speed". Right now I'm coming up blank, but I hadn't given it a whole lot of thought before.

Thanks for adding your thoughts thus far Steve, much appreciated.


Loren

[StevieJ]

Are you of the school of thought then, that the rhythmic nuances can't be taught, by virtue of explanation, example and exercises? Or do you believe this approach can work?

Yes I think they can be taught up to a point. Example is probably the most effective of the three methods I would think and explanation the least! I say up to a point because it's no good the teacher harping on about something if students can't hear it, and when they can, they can probably do it without the teacher anyway. I have done plenty of harping on to students about various aspects of rhythm, often with very little result...

I think most of us outsiders probably have to go through a process like this: you have to learn to play fast badly. Then learn to play slow well. Then learn to play fast well - which is probably something more than a matter of speeding up good slow playing.

Interesting, any chance you could put some sort of name to the "something" more? I mean aside from the physical (mechanical) ability to play uptempo. I'm trying to think if there's any physical skill (that wasn't risky, thus demanding some additional nerve) that I've ever learned which required "something more" when done "at speed". Right now I'm coming up blank, but I hadn't given it a whole lot of thought before.

I was afraid you'd ask that. I'm not sure I can come up with anything either, other than letting go. But my subjective experience is that when you are playing _really_ fast you have to hand over control to some other part of the brain. Not that you are playing on automatic pilot entirely, otherwise you wouldn't be making any decisions at all. But you are relying on past experience much more - you're much less likely to try some little variation you've never tried before for example!

Maybe for true musical geniuses there is no difference, but for me playing close to the limits of your ability just feels different.

Also I still think mainly in terms of the fiddle rather than the whistle. Handling the bow at warp speeds requires a bit of a different approach - making effective use of very small bow strokes and somehow letting your right arm take total control of your body. Which as many of you know I now have considerable trouble with thanks to focal dystonia.

Going back to Bretton's question about what we mean by reels played slow, I was thinking of "slow reel" speed - which is probably way down below 70 bpm or slower. IMO a player needs to be able to play reels and jigs at this kind of speed and have them swinging good and solid.

Steve