starting to consider keys...

[Berti66]

Now two years into this game and a few months having spent with my aebi keyless I find I get curious about using keys.
It's funny, two months ago I didn't even WANT keys, wanted to keep things simple.
But then you come to a lot of crossfingering lately and having to learn halfholing maybe and you start wondering what it would be like to have a go at a keyed flute and what keys to get and if it would make life easier at all?
For me it is definitely the Cnat key that is most desired for the moment as I really hate the crossfingering....find it slows me down.

How long have you all been into flute before you found yourself considering getting keys and how many keys did you get in the end.
Does it matter if you get 6 or 8 keys or only the keys you *really* would use.
How did you learn to use them and did you consider it all worth once you got the tricks down? How long did it take?

[jim stone]

Now two years into this game and a few months having spent with my aebi keyless I find I get curious about using keys.
It's funny, two months ago I didn't even WANT keys, wanted to keep things simple.
But then you come to a lot of crossfingering lately and having to learn halfholing maybe and you start wondering what it would be like to have a go at a keyed flute and what keys to get and if it would make life easier at all?
For me it is definitely the Cnat key that is most desired for the moment as I really hate the crossfingering....find it slows me down.

How long have you all been into flute before you found yourself considering getting keys and how many keys did you get in the end.
Does it matter if you get 6 or 8 keys or only the keys you *really* would use.
How did you learn to use them and did you consider it all worth once you got the tricks down? How long did it take?

About two years. Six keys--in ITM you are unlikely to use the
low keys on an 8 keyed flute. Some ITM players who get such
flutes antique take off the bottom keys.

The keys are helpful but not essential. Nice to have but I
still play keyless flutes a great deal. It took a year or so
to get the keys down, still working on them. I play a fair
number of tunes outside ITM and the keys do help.

As said, nice to have but not essential. Even with a keyed flute
you will often use the crossfingered C natural on account
of its convenience and timbre.

[Nanohedron]

I use the Cnat key pretty much for the 2nd octave; 1st octave Cnat I almost exclusively crossfinger. Force of habit, is all, I suppose.

I like my keys. I don't use them all the time, but I use them. Having an 8-key stick, I have got into the habit of using the lowest two keys in ornamenting the bottom D when I'm tired of cranns. If I didn't have them I wouldn't miss them, I'm sure, but playing in Dm is a treat for me all the same.

But this is all frippery. The best thing about keys is that they keep your flute from rolling off the table.

[Jayhawk]

I think I had been playing, seriously, about two years when I bought an Aulos grenser 1 key flute to enjoy chromatic moments...but although I like to play ragtime, jazz and classical for fun on the side, my true love is ITM and it simply didn't cut it for that. So, about 3 months later I bought my Sweetheart 4 key flute. Being too lazy for wood, I bought my current 6 key M&E, but I'd be just as happy with a 5 key because I rarely, no that's not true, I never, ever use the Cnat key.

I like keys and am happy to have them, and I even use them in ITM.

Eric

[talasiga]

......
For me it is definitely the Cnat key that is most desired for the moment as I really hate the crossfingering....find it slows me down.

.......

Cnat is the one key I would not get on a flute.
A nicely placed thumbhole does the trick
and costs only as much as a hole should.
Hole placement needs to be personalised
so be in the workshop when its done.

One can do fantastic shadings with the thumbhole
which outclasses the x-fingering method.

I would definitely get the low C and C# keys for the unreachable holes.
Why limit a flute's potential ? There are many traditions
and contemporary explorations that could excite usage of these
low notes on a D flute.

[I.D.10-t]

Sorry, only more questions.

Do additional keys require much more care? In other words, once you have one, (other than the initial cost) is there any reason not to get six?

Is there a difference in return for selling a flute with the “wrong” number of keys?

Do people play drills to become use to keys like playing “Mary had a Little Lamb” raising the key by a half step over and over again until the key is again in D?

On re-reading Berti66's post, I still do not know if my questions are the same questions.

[jim stone]

Sorry, only more questions.

Do additional keys require much more care? In other words, once you have one, (other than the initial cost) is there any reason not to get six?

Is there a difference in return for selling a flute with the “wrong” number of keys?

Do people play drills to become use to keys like playing “Mary had a Little Lamb” raising the key by a half step over and over again until the key is again in D?

On re-reading Berti66's post, I still do not know if my questions are the same questions.

No, additional keys don't require much more care.

Probably
selling a flute with six keys is going to be easier than selling
one with fewer keys. Six-keyed flutes are considered
desireable by many players who want keys.

I'm not sure I understand the next question--but basically
one practices using keys as one practices everything
else. Scales, runs using the keys, slowly, slowly then more
quickly. Some get incorporated more quickly than others.

Some folks don't use the C natural key much; others
use it a good deal. But I think it tends to get used a fair
amount, because C natural is a note that you play
as part of a standard ITM scale, G.

Much of the time in ITM you simply don't touch the
keys.

Some people have trouble holding the keyed flute,
because the Eb key is in the way of their rt pinky.
Some roll it away unless they are playing something
that uses it. I've learned to put my pinky on the key
itself, as on a Boehm flute. This can take some getting
used to.

Keys are nice to have, and they look sexy, and they do stop
the flute from rolling, as mentioned above. But you don't
much need them in ITM. The C natural key is useful, if
like Berti you really want an alternative fingering
for C natural.

Berti, you might wish to review your crossfingered
C natural. I'ts doable without slowing down, though the
key can be useful, IMO. But one won't always use
the key. Lots of passages the cross fingered C natural
is more fluid, IMO.

I've been playing tunes like
Favorite Things, the Beatles tunes 'I will'
'Here, There and Everywhere,' also the old standard
'Long Lonely Summer' and so on, Buddy Holly's
'Everyday, It's Gettin Closer.' Some of these
are pretty hard without keys.

There's a lot of lovely music that keys help you play,
but less ITM.

[Terry McGee]

I did an informal survey a few years back, asking people how they approached learning to use the keys. Lots of useful and varied responses, which I collated at:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Learning-the-keys.htm

Many people have trouble with the thumb Bb, because they've got into the habit of using the left thumb for support. If that seems an impediment to you, try out the 19th century holds recommended by several of the period writers on my web page (eg Rockstro). Probably good to prove to yourself you can live without L thumb support - try waving it around while playing your keyless - it should be easy if you are holding the flute securely enough by other means. If you feel you can't divorce the left thumb from the flute, consider an R1 Bb. Ex Boehm players sometimes find it helpful too.

Terry

[George]

I love my long 'c' key ... I have a 'Bb' Aebi flute I bought second hand that has the long 'c' as it's only key. It's not just a way to get a good second octave note, you can bring up the pitch of a flat first octave 'c#' in slow tunes, trill on it, bounce on it. After going from a 5 key to an 8 key 'D' flute, I didn't know what I'd been missing.

Let's hear it for the 'c' key ... Anyone?

-George

[treeshark]

If you go for keys I would get the full 8. As Talasiga says why limit the potential if you don't need to.
When I got my keyed flute I didn't think I'd use the pewters much but I do and for ITM tunes too. As a bonus learning how to get the bottom C to sound strong and reliable will help your bottom D.
After a bit of practice I can even do a sort of a roll on the bottom D!

[djm]

I don't understand the problem with Cnat, as this is easy to cross finger in both 1st and 2nd 8ves. It is only with notes that have to be half-holed, like Eb, or especially Fnat, that I can see keys being a blessing. Since I'm still not progressing well with flute, perhaps I am misunderstanding, or doing something wrong (?).

djm

[Hoovorff]

I have six keys. In some passages, I use the C-natural key, but cross fingering with o23/ ooo is often smoother. If I play B-C natural-B, I'd probably use the C key, but for D-C natural-D, I'd cross finger it. However, I often play my keyless flute, too, and no problem on the C-naturals. It just takes slow practice to get the coordination.

How are you fingering your C-natural, Berti? I think some people involve the right hand, which would make it more cumbersome in some passages.

I found it interesting in a recent class taught by Kevin Crawford that he went around the room and had everyone try out two c-natural fingerings: o2o/ooo or o23/ooo. He was listening for pitch to get the class in tune. He'd tell each person which one was best for their flute. I already knew that o23/ooo worked best for my flute, but good to get his confirmation.

It's good to hear what works for different folks.

Jeanie

[Berti66]

for jeanie: I use oxo xxx maybe this explains something?
indeed I find oxx ooo easier.

berti

[tin tin]

For me it is definitely the Cnat key that is most desired for the moment as I really hate the crossfingering....find it slows me down.

Well, depending on the passage, the C natural key can slow you down, too. It is, however, quite useful for certain passages. Keyed or keyless, it's worthwhile becoming comfortable with a variety of Cnat fingerings: half-holing, oxxooo, oxoxxx, oxxxox...

Having multiple keys increases your chances of leaks, but it's not harder to care for a 6 key flute than it is a 3 key. Unless you know you need the low C and C# (and money is no object), I wouldn't bother.
If you want a fully chromatic flute, 6 keys makes a lot of sense.
If you only need 2 or 3 keys, fine, but I wouldn't spend time worrying about whether to get 4, 5, or 6--just go for 6.

[jim stone]

Suggest, Berti, that you practice scales using these
fingerings--of course you may alread do so.
But patient methodical practice here can
help considerably, IMO.

I use both the fingerings you mention, and I
certainly found these a bit awkward for
a long while and welcomed the C natural key.
But I'm sure you can improve this so that
it no longer slows you down.

I feel it's a good idea, if you play a keyed flute, to
also keep playing an unkeyed flute. The keys
aren't a crutch in ITM, but an alternative--added
options.