Please wear your seatbelts and slow down....

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:18 am

Nuther pet peeve - its bad enough getting stuck behind a too-slow driver who should be boiled in hot oil and have their guts ... <ahem> .... but its the one or two other morons behind the slow driver who are too stupid/too frightened to pass that really gets my goat. Now I am stuck having to wait for a long enough section of clear, straight road to try and pass three idiots at once. These miscreants are the true cause of convoys.

On tailgating, I agree that one should approach only so far that the driver ahead has ample opportunity to move out of the passing lane where they have no business parking their butt in the first place, but my experience is that those who park in the passing lane are also the type of drivers who almost never look in their rearview mirror, so they are blithely unaware that there is anyone else on the road besides themselves. This attitude seems to be part and parcel with overly slow driving in the first place.

I can see how some more moderate drivers might sometimes find themselves the victims of some faster drivers' wrath and for no fault of their own, but that the faster driver has just had to put up with one or more of the more ignorant type of drivers mentioned above. Best not to take it personally, but just to get out of the way as previously mentioned here by others.

djm

Father Emmet · Post by **Father Emmet** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:31 am

Also bear in mind that some tailgators are drunk, especially at night. I have seen drunks using the tail lights of the car ahead of them as a navigation beacon.

Tyler · Post by **Tyler** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:31 am

Father Emmet wrote:Also bear in mind that some tailgators are drunk, especially at night. I have seen drunks using the tail lights of the car ahead of them as a navigation beacon.

Just one more reason to get the hell outta the way...

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:43 am

Tyler Morris wrote:
SteveShaw wrote:
Dale wrote:
I'm guessing that you hardly ever get tailgated because you drive too fast. I'm guessing that I get tailgated from time-to-time because there are people who drive too fast and tailgate others.

My response to being tailgated is to go exactly the speed limit.
If by "too fast" you mean above the speed limit then I plead guilty. If by "too fast" you mean at a reckless and inappropriate speed for the conditions, not guilty. The best response to tailgaters, who are, after all, a bit of a menace, is not to try to police or control or educate them because you feel you have the moral high ground but to let them pass at the earliest possible opportunity. If you consider them to be a danger on the road it is perfectly illogical to make them even more dangerous by attempting to frustrate them. Just move over!
I would have to concour with Steve on this one (and this is coming from the guy who was just involved in a fairly serious rear-ender Saturday, who is also a fairly decent amateur SCCA driver). If someone's tailgating you, move the hell over and let 'em go for heaven's sake (providing there's room). Get outta their lane if you're in traffic. No superiority complex justifies you feeling that you have the moral obligation to force these drivers to do the speed limit. Chronic tailgaters don't change their ways unless they goof up and hurt someone. They're going to screw up one way or the other and nail someone, would you like that someone to be you? Frankly, sitting here in my office in a fairly decent ammount of pain, I'd rather not go through that again...ever. Despite the fact that I have a free Hemi Charger for a week doesn't change the fact that my car is gone (I really loved that Intrepid, it was in stellar shape, and I'll probably never find one in that good a shape for the price I paid for it) and I'm in pain. My personal practice with tailgaters is to get out of their way, and with the kind of cars I deal with on a daily basis, I'd rather not see them taken off the road because of someone else's stupid mistake; no ammount of money, lawsuits, or whatever could bring back my father's Plymouth Superbird, for example... You'll do yourself a favor because you'll reduce your chances of being nailed and the tailgater can learn their lesson on someone elses ride.

At the beginning of the tailgating discussion we did talk about slowing down to make it easier for the tailgater to pass and even pulling over if necessary to let him get by. I think most of us would go for that approach. I agree that getting out of the tailgater's way is the safest thing to do. I constantly check behind me and if someone is approaching who is going faster than I am I always pull over to the right lane as soon as I safely can. I actually don't experience tailgating very often at all.

However it seems that Steve is saying, and part of this comes from his earlier posts, that when he cannot pass someone he feels is driving too slowly he tailgates out of frustration. He puts the responsibility for the accident that this tailgating could cause on the slow driver, the one that is causing him to be frustrated. I would say that if one doesn't have the self-control not to tailgate a slow driver, no matter how maddening the situation is, one is not fit to be behind the wheel.

I once was on a narrow road that had lots of broad curves but very good wide shoulders. It was not a scary road or on cliffs or anything like that but there was no way to pass anyone safely. An elderly woman was, for unknown reasons, driving about 10 miles/hour. Even my mother, who was with me, found that speed to be insane. We would have been hours getting out of the park. I did not tailgate her. I stayed the safe stopping distance away, honked my horn, and waved her over to the side of the road. After about three tries she finally understood and she pulled over and then I passed. I was concerned about scaring her with the horn and causing her to do something dangerous, but I decided probably she would be okay and she was. If she had not pulled over, then I would have been stuck but I wouldn't have tailgated her because I was frustrated. I would have just had to deal with it and continue to drive safely for the sake of the occupants of my car and for hers.

Father Emmet · Post by **Father Emmet** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:49 am

Tyler Morris wrote:
Father Emmet wrote:Also bear in mind that some tailgators are drunk, especially at night. I have seen drunks using the tail lights of the car ahead of them as a navigation beacon.
Just one more reason to get the hell outta the way...

That can be tough when they are clinging to you for dear life.

SteveShaw · Post by **SteveShaw** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:56 am

Cynth wrote:[However it seems that Steve is saying, and part of this comes from his earlier posts, that when he cannot pass someone he feels is driving too slowly he tailgates out of frustration. He puts the responsibility for the accident that this tailgating could cause on the slow driver, the one that is causing him to be frustrated. I would say that if one doesn't have the self-control not to tailgate a slow driver, no matter how maddening the situation is, one is not fit to be behind the wheel.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:07 am

SteveShaw wrote:
Cynth wrote:[However it seems that Steve is saying, and part of this comes from his earlier posts, that when he cannot pass someone he feels is driving too slowly he tailgates out of frustration. He puts the responsibility for the accident that this tailgating could cause on the slow driver, the one that is causing him to be frustrated. I would say that if one doesn't have the self-control not to tailgate a slow driver, no matter how maddening the situation is, one is not fit to be behind the wheel.

Oh Steve, I'm sure you are heart-broken by my remarks.

But honestly, I do believe that you are endangering yourself and others if you get that frustrated. I'm not saying the slow driver shouldn't be going faster but sometimes they just don't. I really would feel it was very tragic if you or another driver were injured because of your frustration.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am

...and some of those slow drivers should not be driving nearly as fast as they are!

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:45 am

Cynth wrote:I do believe that you are endangering yourself and others if you get that frustrated. I'm not saying the slow driver shouldn't be going faster but sometimes they just don't. I really would feel it was very tragic if you or another driver were injured because of your frustration.

If I knowingly choose to speed, then it is incumbent on me to do so safely. If I come up behind someone and realize they are going slower than me, it is my responsibility to check ahead to make sure there isn't a darned good reason why this person is going slow. I need to check the road conditions and traffic levels to ensure that the person has safe access to the slower lane (multilane), or that that there is clear passage for me to pull around them. But if the person fails to look in their rearview mirror to note I am even there, or refuses to let me by when they are clear to do so, I can't help the feeling that it would be immensely satisfying to strap a 6x6 on my bumper and lay into the back of them <hee-hee-hee>.

djm

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:05 am

djm wrote:
Cynth wrote:I do believe that you are endangering yourself and others if you get that frustrated. I'm not saying the slow driver shouldn't be going faster but sometimes they just don't. I really would feel it was very tragic if you or another driver were injured because of your frustration.
If I knowingly choose to speed, then it is incumbent on me to do so safely. If I come up behind someone and realize they are going slower than me, it is my responsibility to check ahead to make sure there isn't a darned good reason why this person is going slow. I need to check the road conditions and traffic levels to ensure that the person has safe access to the slower lane (multilane), or that that there is clear passage for me to pull around them. But if the person fails to look in their rearview mirror to note I am even there, or refuses to let me by when they are clear to do so, I can't help the feeling that it would be immensely satisfying to strap a 6x6 on my bumper and lay into the back of them <hee-hee-hee>.

djm

Well, yeah, I do know the feeling. I have on just a few occasions gotten very annoyed while driving. Once I did shock myself by doing something (not serious, but still dumb) that was the result of getting mad and luckily it didn't cause a problem. I decided that I could never ever do something like that again. I really had a very serious discussion with myself about controlling my impulses and road rage. I guess I gave myself a good talking to because I have not done anything like that again. I have not let myself get to the point of being mad or frustrated---I stamp it out at the first sign because I am so scared it could get out of control. It really scared me that I could be so stupid.

SteveShaw · Post by **SteveShaw** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:06 am

djm wrote:
Cynth wrote:I do believe that you are endangering yourself and others if you get that frustrated. I'm not saying the slow driver shouldn't be going faster but sometimes they just don't. I really would feel it was very tragic if you or another driver were injured because of your frustration.
If I knowingly choose to speed, then it is incumbent on me to do so safely. If I come up behind someone and realize they are going slower than me, it is my responsibility to check ahead to make sure there isn't a darned good reason why this person is going slow. I need to check the road conditions and traffic levels to ensure that the person has safe access to the slower lane (multilane), or that that there is clear passage for me to pull around them. But if the person fails to look in their rearview mirror to note I am even there, or refuses to let me by when they are clear to do so, I can't help the feeling that it would be immensely satisfying to strap a 6x6 on my bumper and lay into the back of them <hee-hee-hee>.

djm

I feel I have an ally. Go on - deny it now!

Tyler · Post by **Tyler** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:16 am

Just to add another element to the discussion...

In Utah there's a law that prohibits being an obstacle to traffic flow when conditions are optimal. One can also be ticketed for travelling under the speed limit during optimal conditions. The fee structure is the reverse from speeding; the slower under the speed limit (or flow of traffic in some instances) the higher the fee gets. Unfortunatly, these laws don't see universal application; the teen horsing around by intentionally going ten under the speed limit will get cited while the gramma an' grampa doin' forty in a seventy zone wont even get pulled over.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:17 am

I guess the issue I have with the slow/fast, tailgating debate going on here is that when I'm tailgated, it's almost never because I'm naively hogging the passing lane. It's entirely possible, and typical, that I'm somewhere in the middle, and that the tailgater is fully free to pass me. On either side. The attitude is one of domination and aggression. A reasonable driver who merely had a faster comfort level than I would pass me--not make like the Terminator and ride my tail.

Tyler · Post by **Tyler** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:21 am

emmline wrote:I guess the issue I have with the slow/fast, tailgating debate going on here is that when I'm tailgated, it's almost never because I'm naively hogging the passing lane. It's entirely possible, and typical, that I'm somewhere in the middle, and that the tailgater is fully free to pass me. On either side. The attitude is one of domination and aggression. A reasonable driver who merely had a faster comfort level than I would pass me--not make like the Terminator and ride my tail.

Consider this, then. If you're somewhere in the middle and being tailgated, how many times has the tailgater followed you into another lane after you've made a move out of his way? I 'pologize, but it just seems the domination/aggression argument only lends creedence to the superiority/stubborness argument. If you're in the middle and you don't take the initiative to move, what does that say about your motivations? See what I'm trying to say?

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:32 am

emmline wrote:
peeplj wrote:Slow driving is a real problem around here. The highways curve and have sharp rises and descents; if traffic moves at 75 and there's somebody just around the corner going 30 MPH under the speed limit, they are not only gonig to kill themselves, they just might take several families with them.

How could driving 75 on a road with curves and sharp rises and descents possibly be considered safe? And when that rocket ploughs into the slow car, how could it possibly be the slow driver's fault exclusively?
(agreed that 30mph is an extreme example, but could 75 really be the speed limit on a road such as you describe?)

The posted speed limit on most highways is 70. 75 is a pretty conservative estimate of how fast people actually drive them. I usually drive between 75 and 80 and most traffic flies on by like I'm standing still.

What the speed limit should be on our nation's highways is another debate for another thread. I'm only talking about what it is, not what it should be.

There are nice straight stretches in the highways, of course, particularly I-40, but even on it there is one place in particular I'm thinking of where there's a pretty much blind curve to the left. I routinely move into the left lane before the curve for fear that there may be a slow driver in the right lane.

My point to all this, really my only point is that if you are impeding the flow of traffic, then you are a danger to yourself and to others.

If you are a slow driver, please stay in the right lane for slow traffic and try to drive at least reasonably close to the posted speed limit. I hate to see anyone have a wreck, and I want to believe all my Chiffy friends are safe!

Tyler, I was very sorry to hear about your wreck--I'm very sorry about your car and your pain, and I'm glad you weren't hurt any worse. I hope you heal quickly.

--James