Classical musician considers joining the 'dark side'

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:44 am

Welcome! Sounds like you are going to fit in here just fine.
I'd like to disagree with Marcus about you not needing a tutor. Very true that you'll pick up the basics of fingering and breath control very easily with your backround. However, a good tutor will really help you get a feel for the Irish musical idiom, particularly the ornamentation. I came over from recorder playing (and I'm still a pretty avid recorder player of decent amateur abilities). Ornamentation in traditional music serves an entirely different purpose than it does in Baroque and other periods of Classical music, even though it's often written with the same notation. This can be very confusing! A good tutor system consisting of a book and CD of examples can make a world of difference. I like Bill Ochs' "The Clarke Tinwhistle", and also the one by LE McCullough. You're in for a world of fun.
As far as whistles go, you've made some good selections. For the price of even a Wal Mart cheapo clarinet, you can buy a LOT of decent whistles. I'd suggest buying a wide range if you have the budget for it: you can always narrow down to your favorites once you're experienced and sell the ones you don't care for right here on the board.

picardy third · Post by **picardy third** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:26 am

Hi Kim,

There are a lot of great books out there that I'm sure will be recommended to you. One that is very hard to find, but I think may be of interest to you is "Irish Whistles In Worship-A Practical Guide" by Michelle Wooderson. Michelle did a lot of the whistle work on Robin Mark's "Revival in Belfast" albums and "Come Heal This Land". You can order the book off of the Christian Fellowship Church Belfast website. It is basic but goes over a lot of elements you won't get from traditional books. If you don't have those albums, you may want to check them out.

I also play for a larger church (about 3500 people). I've had the opportunity to record whistle on at least one tune on each of our albums. One interesting thing in a large contemporary band setting, sound guys tend to like the purer whistles (that is my experience). I love the Overton/Chieftain sound (a bit chiffy) and back pressure, but not yet has a producer or sound person chosen that sound over a purer sound

. But this is south Florida where no one even knows what a whistle is, much less great whistle tone! That being the case most of the recording I've done has been with Burkes and Susatos! Burkes tend to be a little quieter. Any way, while I don't care for Susatos, they are quite useful in full band situations. They are pretty consistant with good tuning (especially the Burkes). Unfortunately, a lot of the other cheapies have let me down in full band situations, that they either have tuning problems or they don't cut through a thick mix. Although I have used Generations live too.

There are tons of great whistles out there. These are just what have worked for me.

P3

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:31 am

Here is an excellent book and CD with interesting tunes and ornaments. Not just ITM.
http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/t ... /ochs.html

burnsbyrne · Post by **burnsbyrne** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:59 am

So, KA, you're a Clevelander! Definitely call the West Side Irish American club. They will mail you a list of people who teach whistle, fiddle, flute, button box and pipes. I hooked up with my teacher that way and it worked out very well. If you live on the east side, call the East Side club. The probably have a similar list. My teacher lives in Bay Village. If you like I can send you his phone # by email or private message.
Mike

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:44 am

The best whistle to buy is easy. It is the whistle that sounds good to YOUR ear and that YOU can play well. The Susato is a fine whistle. So are Generations, Feadogs, Waltons mellow Ds, Clares, Dixons, etc. In fact you will find someone who considers each whistle his ultimate whistle. Now for the downside. The only way to find YOUR whistle is to play all of them. Make sure you play more than one of each. The way most of us do this is to buy all of them. As soon as you think you have it. Someone will introduce a new whistle. You know you have to try it. WhOA.

Ron

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:06 am

I have no musical background. When I began (3 yrs ago) I played a no-name, an Oak and a Sweetone. It was enough to get me hooked. After three months, I got a Susato. On the first breath I knew it was a different level of whistle - much more predictable and consistent - better tone and much louder. I'm pretty sure everyone goes through a Susato phase. Given your background, I'd suggest starting there.

Also, the low whistle feels different because of the stretch in the grip and requires a lot more air. You could put off buying a low whistle until you're comfortable with the a high whistle.

Most importantly, if you're going for Irish music, listen, listen, listen. E-bay is a good source for used cds.

KATaylor5 · Post by **KATaylor5** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:47 am

I spent most of yesterday listening to the various sound clips on tinwhistletunes.com and that of course steered me in the right direction as to what whistles I may want now, and what to shoot for later if I stick with it.

There were some excellent recordings of the Susato Low D. It has a very haunting quality however it doesn't sound Irishy enough... it sounds a bit spready, more of an Asian flute/recorder sound, more mellow and dark, and would be something I would expect more out of a new age recording or relaxation CD rather than an Irish ensemble or pub environment. Though, I can tell they would be great for larger situations that need volume and they record very well; I'm sure my church sound crew would just drool. I like the Susato sound because it's darker; and that's probably because I have that 'dark' clarinet tone in my head.

If I went with the Low D Susato set from The Whistle Shop, that would run me $128. If I go with the Kerry Low D, now we're talkin $154. The money I would save going with the Susato would enable me to buy some other whistles now. When I am ready for a more professional Low D I will go with the Overton...LOVE that sound! So right now I need to decide between which Low D to go with, the Kerry or the Susato. I am leaning towards the Susato and here's why: From what I heard, the Kerry and the Overtons sound pretty darn close in basic core sound whereas the Susato has a very different quality. It might be nice to have a Susato and Overton in my collection since they are so contrasting. Secondly, the Susato is a little cheaper which I need. Thirdly, my first time performing with it would be in church and non-Irish settings. I just didn't want to be shot if I entered an Irish pub with a Susato hee hee.

My soprano decisions are getting...out of hand:) I read the Wanderer's review of Freeman's tweaked Shaw D and listened. It definitely sounds like it has the muscle to cut through praise band.

So my semi-step up beginner D's are:
Tweaked Shaw D, Tweaked Mellow Dog, Tweaked Sweetone,

Thought about getting some regulars: Clark Original D, Feadog Brass, not sure if I should get a nontweaked Sweetone. Wondering if the two are really all that different. That is where I am struggling the most, with the Clarkes. There are non-tweaked and tweaked versions of both the Original and the Sweetone. I really don't want to buy them all.

Other keys:
C: Not sure if I should go with Clark Original C or the Sweetone C
Bb: was just gonna go with a Generation
Eb: was gonna go with a Generation
My church band does alot of Eb & Bb so I figured I should just have 'something' in case I need them.

I'm amazed how good some nontweaked cheapy whistles sound!
Down the road though, I would like a Burke for my soprano D.

I plan on going with Grey Larsen's Essential Guide, McCullough's Complete Guide, The Fiddler's Fakebook, Irelands Best Session Tunes, all of which I found online cheaper than retail.

I figure I will spend about $300-350 US on everything. I am in the process of selling a plastic clarinet to a student and I may try to unload my student piccolo. I have other house crap to sell:) I really do need to get rid of some stuff before I spend all this money on whistles! Perhaps WhOA will give me the motivation to get rid of some stuff in order to 'earn' my whistles

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:02 am

KATaylor5 wrote: Perhaps WhOA will give me the motivation to get rid of some stuff in order to 'earn' my whistles

Exactly how I ease my conscience.

I'm slowly unloading a truckload of neglected belongings: some instruments, non-whistle instructional books, videos and such that I'm done working through.... There's a market for used musical goods (as we can all attest), and recouping even a fraction of your original purchase price on old stuff can offset the cost of new stuff. Whistles are pretty cheap, after all! These days, I'm into acquiring and recyling, but not hoarding!

KATaylor5 · Post by **KATaylor5** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:15 am

What does IMHO and IMT mean?

sorry, new to all the abbreviations and whistle 'lingo'. Took me awhile to figure out what WhOA meant

lenf · Post by **lenf** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:35 am

KATaylor5 wrote:What does IMHO and IMT mean?

sorry, new to all the abbreviations and whistle 'lingo'. Took me awhile to figure out what WhOA meant

IMHO isn't really whistle lingo. (I'm almost tempted to say it hardly ever applies around talk about whistles, but...)

In My Humble Opinion

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:01 pm

lenf wrote:
KATaylor5 wrote:What does IMHO and IMT mean?

sorry, new to all the abbreviations and whistle 'lingo'. Took me awhile to figure out what WhOA meant
IMHO isn't really whistle lingo. (I'm almost tempted to say it hardly ever applies around talk about whistles, but...)

In My Humble Opinion

And IMT is actually ITM, (Irish Traditional Music).

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:24 pm

Just to forewarn ya, those Susato Low whistles have a very long finger stretch to that bell note compared to most other low whistles... moreso than I was comfortable with. If you go that route, unless you have large hands, you may want to look into getting the keyed bell note but then you're probably close to the same price as the Kerry. Something to consider. If it's only a matter of $20 or so then I'd spring for the Kerry.
Also, in my experience, the Sweetone C's were not that good as far as being in tune and having good intonation. I like the D's but I was unimpressed with the quality of the C. I like the Clarke original C but they take A LOT of breath to play. I'm not trying to discourage you from buying, just trying to offer some experience. Good luck with your first wave of WhOA!

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:54 pm

If Tim Benson is still in Cleveland, he's a very, very fine flute player and piper. Might be worth tracking him down for a lesson/info swap or two.

Good luck!

Flogging Jason · Post by **Flogging Jason** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:54 pm

There's a tweaked Shaw D on ebay right now with a starting price of $25. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Penny-Whistle-Shaw- ... dZViewItem

KATaylor5 · Post by **KATaylor5** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:59 pm

Thanks, I'll check it out!