Italian + French Pipes

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:21 pm

So you don't like Zampogne and "other Bagpipes" that's too darn BAD ....cause they are such a relief to play when your Irish Cyclatron is DOWN (usualy due to some reeds not working properly) ! Back in the 1980s.......true story....An Irish Man / PIPER, came up to me whilst I was playing my Scapoli Zamp (by Ettore Di Fiore)....on the street in San Francisco......
The PIPER said, "That Pipe is MARVELOUS....they threw away the CHANTER, and KEPT the DRONES and REGULATORS !!"
I told him I needed a Piffero (CHANTER) player to get the full effect, as it is really a 2 person / people / MAN / operation.
The Irish Piper told me he was only there in California for a holiday, and besides, the CHANTER REED in his practice set wasn't working, atall atall, etc.
"No problem !" I replied, as I pulled out the Piffero out of my case, and said,"Just stick this Piffero in your gob and you're AWAY TO THE RACES....well he had never LIPPED a reed before (The piffero NEEDS the OBOE embrosure, to play in tune), and he failed to get even a SQEEEK out of it..."Too Bad" I said, "cuz if I have a Piffero player..I could knock out more music, than the limited supply of notes that I have on this HARMONY instrument. Ted Anderson (on Piffero) and I have played the North Beach (San Fracisco) Italian Fair, many times....the "Xmas REVELS" Italian Xmas show in Oakland (year 2000)...more recently for a Italian Club's luncheon in San Jose, this last May....we were a real hit with those Business men paid to play and a lunch thrown in, as well! Part of "The Barry O'Neill Thesis",(see Sean Reid Society Journal) is the historical fact that: THE FIRST REGULATOR was on the Sordellina of Michele Todini, (also known as the "Neapolitan Musette"). Recently, the method for it was printed up in 1996, the Baldani tabletture...showing the interplay of the 2 chanters and the REGULATOR (a DRONE with keys on it, the whole Pipe was double reeded). A German Piper, named Horst Grimm, has attemped a reconstruction, and there was a big article about it in the "Circolo Della Zampogna" a few issues back. The Calabrian Surdellina is actualy a plain, single reeded instrument that is NOT that Rare (No Regulator either, sorry Jason !!) I have rebagged and rereeded several of them over the years and they are still being made in Italy. Alot of them are elaborately carved-up but I have never heard of a "Demonic" one before....the Calabrians usual go out of their way to have Angelic-style Pipes, with pure White-Haired Goat-skins for BAGS....and plenty of Wax Picks to Ward OFF the EVIL EYE (Maloccio!!!) or let it pass through.
Grumble if you must, about "Other Pipes", they ultimately lead to the AMAZING PIPES we attempt to play !!!
Mille Grazie a "Giovanni lo Zampogaro" AKA: Sean An Piobaire / Xuan El Gaitero / etc etc. Sean Folsom

CHasR · Post by **CHasR** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:03 pm

Well this is a good thing

exactly the sort of stick-up-for-your-zampogna post I'd been hoping for

not even scratching the surface of harmony + counteropint until you get a Molise 25 con mod.

so there's like what 6 of us?

7 if you count the oboist I coruppted into Piffering for me

but we need more repertoire gotta 2 1/2 hr Italian fest coming up + everyone wants 'Al Di La' instead of Tratturo.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:48 pm

Yeah for Pipes other than Uilleann and Highland. I play Gaita Galega.

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:15 pm

Well Chas, Great to hear you're serving the Philadelphia Italian community, my friend and amateur Zampognaro, Lionel Bottari, of Chicago, vacations there, from time to time, with some friend of his. Lionel was my roadie and translator when the Circolo Della Zampogna flew me to Italy, with 20 sets of pipes, to play at the 20th Festa (in 1996, and it used to be always the last weekend in July). It was the 20th anniversary of the festival, that started in 1976 in the polar opposite time of year from XMAS.
This was done so that every Zamp-piper is home / hanging out / doing nothing musical.
Thus, the Festa made it possible to make some money in the summer, especialy for the Zampogna makers (the Di Fiore brothers, Geraldo Gualtieri, Luigi Ricci, Pietro Ricci & etc.). I paid Luigi Ricci with a 6mm gun drill from Danjon Tools, to make me a new high chanter to replace a broken chanter that I got in a trade (zamp for a Richard Maheu Bulgarian Gaida) from Mike McNinch...it's a 4 palmi Neapolitan Zampogna that had been in upper New York state (key of Eb) it's slightly larger than the biggest Scapoli Pipe of 32 cm. (my Scapoli Zamp is the one in F#). This "Zampogna di Napoli" HONKS !! It's my favorite Pipe, and I have it reeded with my own #6 plastic reeds! The plastic is cut out of "Big Gulp" cups etc.
THEN I have a Gran Zampogna from Campagna, that's 5 palmi (key of C major). Not to be outdone, my friend Ted Anderson went to Scapoli and came back with a 6 palmi ( a LOW A flat), from the Forestieri brothers (now too old to make any more of them). Ted is matched (or tied) for "Biggest Zampogna on the West Coast" with a guy in Vancouver Washington named Marc (Brad Angus' next store neighbor) who has a 6 palmi by the other guy who still making them, and Marc ordered an 8 palmi (The BIGGEST / low G ), but hasn't got it yet. As to Piffero repetoire, the home boys adapt all kinds of tunes: popular songs, waltzes, polkas, masurkas,even Argentine Tangos! No complete, or even partial book, has ever been published that has any of these tunes in regular music notation.
I told herself "La Presidente" della Circolo....Antonietta Caccia, to please make one up and print it, but that hasn't happened yet !
Maybe Pietro Ricci could do it as he is a Music teacher, living in Isernia
(county seat of Molise province), but I understand that he's been estranged from the Circolo, for what I don't know....? so I suspect that the Circolo would not be the publisher, even tho' they have some funding from the Parco Nationale di Abruzzi. To conclude this overlong posting, Chas.... check out these web sites: www.hotpipes.com which is Oliver Seeler's web site with 30 pipes of my Bagpipe collection, and then there's my under-developed-ment site: www.seanthepiper.com with the article / interveiw that the Circolo did with me, just before I went over to Italy (LO! THESE TEN YEARS PAST). I had a great time... and I was the one who got Paddy Keenan interested into going over himself, after I talked it up and showed him some of Lionel Bottari's videos.... Zampogne AND the "Bella Ragazzi" natch ? Keenan also went back a second time (for 2 years -in a- ROW).
Over and Out for NOW
Sean Folsom

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:25 am

Sean..who is it ye are talking about when ye write?
"So you don't like Zampogne and "other Bagpipes" that's too darn BAD "??

and..

??Gumble if you must about "Other Pipes"
I don't think anyone said they didnae like the things or Gumbled(grumbled even) about them other than the obvious statement that the Uilleann Pipe Forum is for Uilleann Pipes which is not unreasonable.That is why this post has been moved to the Pub.
Slán Agat
Uilliam

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:48 am

Tae th' Bra Lawlans Man Hissel:
So ye did single yerself oot of th' crowd o' GRUMBLERS did ye not?
an' AYE ! I did lissen te Billy Connoly and Matt McGinn, whilst living in
GLASGEE (the toon wi'oot a castle / th' lovely dear green place),that gees me a key to yer ramblins......? an' is it only for th' want of education, that ye want to remit all such postings to the caff? As few as there are?
The Chiff started oot as a PURE WHISTLE SITE, and just th' noo, has th' FLUTE an' PIPES added in, an' I would argue tha' IF th' subjects posted interest PIPERS, then why pitch these postings te th' Peery Hoose ahint th' BURN?
Sean ye Piper

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:57 pm

Ah, more brain pickins' please!

BzzzzT · Post by **BzzzzT** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:42 pm

I have no clue why this thread got locked and moved when there are a bunch of people discussing their small pipes, northumbrians, and gaitas on the forum. The uilleanns are a newcomer to the bagpipe world. Compared to some pipes like the gaida they are newborns. I think one can gain quite a bit on the evolution of pipes by discussing other traditions and cultures. Bagpipes and their evolution was about cross pollination in my opinion. Most people who play the bagpipes have a general love and interest in other forms of piping and how it all relates to one another.

I did find a real surdelina with reeds. It looked just like the one here halfway down the page -

http://www.hotpipes.com/thissite.html

I have also found an antique chiaramedda with reeds and no bag for around $500. I wish I had more $$$

These old pipes are out there you just have to do your homework, the surdelina was listed as an exotic african instrument not a bagpipe!

I really want a zampogna. I have my eye on a Luigi Ricci Zampogna in G. I plan to get it someday when I get the cash.

- Jason

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:52 pm

Then again, all these other less-than-uilleann bagpipes would have their own forums if they were anywhere half as good.

djm

CHasR · Post by **CHasR** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:44 pm

CdZ can handle transaction to get you your L Ricci + you get the ciaramella too, Antonietta speaks Inglese, was no problem.

Yoenn biniawr, Youre on the DVD. sounds like you gota 'quattro palmi e mezzo' :

<http://www.avagliano.it/zampogne/ancia_libera.htm>

good luck with that 8 palmi; he s gonna have to pick that up personally in NYC from customs I bet.

A.C sent me a bunch of scores too, really good stuff, some not in Utriculus
no one knows the tunes tho.

well this is it, then the zampgogne forum for "io non parlo Italiano" zampognari

what kind of staples you usin on thise big gulps?(gawww...cant see actually drinkin any of that trash, use it for paint remover, maybe...)

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:00 am

sean an piobaire wrote:Tae th' Bra Lawlans Man Hissel:
So ye did single yerself oot of th' crowd o' GRUMBLERS did ye not?
an' AYE ! I did lissen te Billy Connoly and Matt McGinn, whilst living in
GLASGEE (the toon wi'oot a castle / th' lovely dear green place),that gees me a key to yer ramblins......? an' is it only for th' want of education, that ye want to remit all such postings to the caff? As few as there are?
The Chiff started oot as a PURE WHISTLE SITE, and just th' noo, has th' FLUTE an' PIPES added in, an' I would argue tha' IF th' subjects posted interest PIPERS, then why pitch these postings te th' Peery Hoose ahint th' BURN?
Sean ye Piper

Ecxcuse me perleez Sean,but I do not find the above funny,

if indeed it was intended as so ,but rather a poor affront on my writing style.

Could this be an attempt to avoid answering the question.? Who said they don't like Zampogne and "other Bagpipes"?Name names...

As for grumbling, ye obviously do not agree that the Uilleann Pipe forum should be confined to its primary purpose but should be open to all and sundry,ye then go on to grumble about it being moved to the "caff"

If ye do not agree to the post being moved to the Pub then perhaps ye should take it up with the moderator who decided it so.Not me.
Ye accuse me o "ramblins",bit rich coming frae yersel isn't it ?Your knowledge of bagpipes coming frae your obsession with them is impressive and one cannot help but learn something frae them,but they do go on a bit and sometimes veer off the path.Pot calling the kettle black an a that.

As for being uneducated let me gie ye a lesson or three...when ye were in Glascu ye obviously didnae pick up the patois nor paid much attention to your locale..
Tae th' Bra Lawlans Man Hissel: wrang... Brá or braw not brasserie and me mothers family were frae Inverness originally which makes me Heelan stock.
GLASGEE wrang...Glesga is the correct perceived pronounciation.
toon wrang..There is a Cathederal therefore it is a City not a town.
So dinnae act it pal...

Slán Agat
Uilliam
ps and the sky is blue

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:24 am

Uilliam wrote:If ye do not agree to the post being moved to the Pub then perhaps ye should take it up with the moderator who decided it so. Not me.

Yeah, take it up with me. I'm a grown, semi-muscular man, I can take it. Well, I can listen anyway... OK, more like kinda notice. Better yet, do not take it up with me at all, it wouldn't do you any good to any ways.... as I am nutty as a... well... nut.

BzzzzT · Post by **BzzzzT** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:08 am

Uilliam wrote: Your knowledge of bagpipes coming frae your obsession with them is impressive and one cannot help but learn something frae them,but they do go on a bit and sometimes veer off the path.Pot calling the kettle black an a that.

Well I for one enjoy Sean's colorful storys no matter what path they take despite all the gumblers.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:19 am

Sean has a vast knowledge of, in addition to a vast expeirience playing, many many varieties of bagpipes. I enjoy his posts a great deal, and there is always something to learn from them. Sean has been at this a very long time, and has gained more insight into bagpipes than I could ever hope to know in a life time.

I am not certain if this is the correct place to have moved the thread. But here it is and here it will stay. I apologize if it is an inconvenience to some, but that's the way it is.

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:35 pm

Uilliam:
As to the use of "Toon" I seem to remember:
"I belong tae Glasgow....dear auld Glasgow toon" That's words of the song... In 1969, on a short stay of 2 weeks, I saw the last of the Gorbals being torn down.
In 1975, I lived in Maryhill, for 6 months, then I switched to Moss Park, near the Rangers, for another 6 months....The thing I liked best about "Siberia on the Clyde" was the PEOPLE ! They would give you the shirt off their back.....but they just might not, have a shirt to give you......I know that things have been better, with the passage of all these years, the economy has been much improved, from the time I lived there.
As for the Lawlans spellings, and useages... in my reading I've noticed that's been very flexible.... over the centuries....?
So, in light of that, I corrected the R in GRUMBLE !
GUMBLE, was my late night spelling....and I'm beginning to like it more and more, with each passing moment !
Thanks for the soothing words, Mr. Smith, I still think there's nothing wrong with having the Zampogna post on the front page, but too late for that now, as I get into the deep end of the____.
You won Uilliam, I bow down LOW, to your deep knowledge of your country, and try as I might, I will never capture the true voice of you and yours, whether it be Robert Burns..... or the "great" William McGonagall.
Sean Folsom