OT&Controversial: Just say no

[MurphyStout]

On 2002-09-10 18:17, U2 wrote:
I would like to hear the views of others on mandatory drug testing.

I read a book called Nickel and Dimed that talked about how the working (poor) class gets screwed over. One of the things it talked about was drug testing. It was found that drug testing did not affect productivity, employee turnaround, or puntuality. It did not improve anything that it was supposed to improve.

The book also brought up another interesting point. The drug screening industry is a 2 Billion dollar a year industry. Coincidence? I think not!

Furthermore, if I was working at taco bell or something equally depressing, I would want to be a little messed up too. It just might make the job a little more tolerable.

Jack Murphy

[Rockymtnpiper]

On Manditory Drug Testing... This is merely a formality that insurance companies impose upon businesses. It has no bearing on anything. A pre-employment test is given, and DUH most people pass this one. Various tricks include.. drinking bleach, drinking a bottle of Certo, drinking several gallons of water, and various quick cleanse potions. Do these tricks work? The people who bragg about these tricks took the same pre-employment test i did.. The other times testing is called for is "The Day after one screws up", and after accidents.

How about if we make the cannibidacious plant Humilus Lupis (sp.?)illegal?? Beer Drinkers would throw a fit. Beer just wouldnt taste the same without the the bitter taste of the cannibiniods found in the hops plant.

Take a look in your own garden. Lettuce (a better than average source of opiates), MArigolds (hallucinagen), Columbines (better than average source of hydrocyanic acid), Wormwood (absynth) and countless others. It would probably be best to stay out of the garden, its a dangerous place and likely the Government should spend another 40 billion a year and protect us from our own garden.

There is exactly one winning strategy to win the war on drugs. Zero Tolerance at city hall. IF the DOJ went after the big time dealers with connections at city hall, the Sherriffs dept. etc. there would be far less drugs on the street. The Dealers who move the most product are "sanctioned" or otherwise have permission from corrupt officials to do business. Chasing down every small time petty hustler is not working, especially when its not much of a chase... The big time dealers are the best informants that corrupt cops have. The primary reason I stay away from Drugs, is that I do not want crooked cops getting a single penny of my money. Of course, not all cops are crooked. Unfortunatly, clean cops do very little if anything to police their own. Indeed, these are the same problems that Alcohol Prohibition had.

As for legalizing and taxing the heck out of various substances.. I do not believe the IRS should even exist, so its not really an option.

Personaly I think Canada should be proud that they are not in a**l/cranal loopback. Especially when it comes to Industrial Hemp. One thing that most people do not realize about the Industrial Hemp, is that anyone who lives close to a hemp field would have an incredibly hard time growing unpollinated female plants. (I am assuming that farmers are not weeding out the 500,000 +/- male plants per acre..)

[The Weekenders]

Geez, Rocky, thanks for that!!!!

On occasion, I have found custom local ales to have a slight taste and smell that reminded of my pot-familiar days, that "skunky" but sweet odor, of buds. Its the hops!?! Draft at the Albatross in Berkeley (for the locals).....had one at Brax's Landing in Cape Cod 10 days ago too.

So thats why!!!!!!!!!! Dang. Whata bunch of smart folk on this forum!!!

[MurphyStout]

On 2002-09-11 00:26, Rockymtnpiper wrote:
On Manditory Drug Testing... This is merely a formality that insurance companies impose upon businesses. It has no bearing on anything.

Oh, and just because the insurance companies are involved makes it ligit. If anything that should tell you that it is even more of a scam. And like you said most people pass it anyways so why do it? It is just a scam to make some people money.

And here's my quote for this post

"I'm a man of principle, not capital."
-Jack Murphy

[jim stone]

I have a visceral dislike of drug
tests, lie detector tests, and so on.
There was a time when you had to
sign loyalty oaths to do all sorts
of things--I had to sign one to
graduate high school. In grad school
I had to sign one (in several places,
testifying that I didn't have certain
views and also that I wouldn't talk
to anybody who did, and so on) in order
to grade logic papers. I refused.
I remember the prof saying to me,
when he learned of this: 'Foolish
gesture!' He had signed one, of
course, or he wouldn't have been
teaching. You had to sign one to
mop floors. It's no surprise that
a lot of kids in my generation
grew up wanting to burn official things
down.

[serpent]

On 2002-09-11 04:25, jim stone wrote:
I have a visceral dislike of drug
tests, lie detector tests, and so on.
There was a time when you had to
sign loyalty oaths to do all sorts
of things--I had to sign one to
graduate high school. In grad school
I had to sign one (in several places,
testifying that I didn't have certain
views and also that I wouldn't talk
to anybody who did, and so on) in order
to grade logic papers. I refused.
I remember the prof saying to me,
when he learned of this: 'Foolish
gesture!' He had signed one, of
course, or he wouldn't have been
teaching. You had to sign one to
mop floors. It's no surprise that
a lot of kids in my generation
grew up wanting to burn official things
down.

Uh... there were generations where a lot of kids _didn't_ want to burn things down?

I came up in the fifties. The stupid-looking clothes we wore were analogous to the stupid-looking clown-pants kids wear today. I was one of the "beatnik" kids who went for all black clothes, turtleneck sweater, even in summer (dumbass), and a "flat-top with fenders" haircut - possibly even more ridiculous, in it's own way, than the spikey-blonde-tipped ones I see now. "Mary Jane" was used, though not nearly as widely as "speedballs" (amphetamines), crank, or morphine/heroin.

Every generation has it's "rebels". We're all the same. Teenage kids are, by and large, just as much a bunch of sh*t now as we were in our teens. And, like us, they don't recognize the fact, and won't until they're (possibly) in their thirties.

Blowing weed doesn't sap your incentive, unless you're doing it excessively. And it doesn't foster violence. Baby, I'd a whole damn lot rather walk into a room full of pot-heads, than a room full of drunks (or ultra-right-wing, Fundamentalist bible-thumpers, for that matter).

One other thing. You smoke too much weed, you go to sleep. You drink too much alcohol, you die. Considering the punishment for excess, I think the former is probably preferable...

Bill "Serpent" Whedon
Serpent Music
http://www.serpentmusic.com

[Paul Reid]

Just a reiteration of the topic The (Canadian) Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs -- please note "Senate Committee" (it is not that different from the American Senate for your perspective), would consist of the same type of people (experienced [read senior] professional social policy builders) that would be consulted for other controversial studies. The Canadian government, which in my opinion, is a forward thinking hard working organisation and, for the most part, honest and working for the well being of its population. A recommendation by a committee of this magnitude communicates a well thought out and rounded study of considerable weight. It has never been their mandate to take controversial subjects lightly. Be assured that this report would have a very balanced viewpoint. For the record.

[Walden]

On 2002-09-11 00:26, Rockymtnpiper wrote:
As for legalizing and taxing the heck out of various substances.. I do not believe the IRS should even exist, so its not really an option.

I may not agree with everything, but I agree with you on this: The IRS shouldn't exist.

[ceolach]

I have an Masters Degree, hold a respectable steady job, play the hell out of a copeland Low D, own my own home and smoke Cannabis regularly. I don't think I'm much different from the "average recreational" pot user except for the Copeland part of the equation.

[U2]

gary - If your post was comprehensively indicative of where our apparent disagreements lie, then I consider us very much in agreement on the topic of anti-drug legislation. I do agree with you that laws are intended to reflect the morals of the majority. That said, I recall an anti-prayer petitioner who did indeed appeal through law to get her way even though is was quite obvious her views were in the minority - O'Hare. Your thoughts on that might be interesting.

I guess we can chalk up our drugs laws to 1) drug users are not voters, 2) candidates who relect the views of drug users do not exist across the nation, 3) people fear having their motives questioned by a democracy who has declared war on something they repeatedly admit is part of their culture and the way they have chosen to address it is through incarceration (i.e. Who wants to go to prison over the right to smoke pot when you can smoke it and stay quiet?). Other explanations certainly exist.

jim stone - Taos huh? You got some talent there man. Roger Landes, Chipper Thompson, Mason Brown, to name but a few. Good, good folks. I hope they are your associates. Your life is better for it, if so. I know them boys have been a blessing to me.

edited for poore pruff redaing the furst time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: U2 on 2002-09-11 11:09 ]</font>

[Sean]

Ceolach,
you so rock.

[Chuck_Clark]

I used to be a man of means,
Trustworthy and steadfast,
Until I found this horrid stuff,
That awful demon, Grass!

I took a puff, and then again,
My eyes began to roar,
My ears began to see strange sights,
I passed out on the floor.

And now I know it rots my genes,
And leads me on to junk,
In just a little while, I know,
I'll be a no-good punk.

I'll lose my job, an addict be,
Some kind of filthy bum,
I'll steal and rob to get my highs,
Inhabiting a slum.

It's not my fault, I'm innocent,
And this is how I'll plead,
Don't blame me for my horrid state,
But blame that devil's weed.

I'm doomed, I'm damned, I know I'm lost,
I've nowhere left to go.
How did I learn these awful truths?
My government told me so!


_________________
"But still there are so many things that I have never seen.
In every wood in every Spring there is a different green."

- B. Baggins

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chuck_Clark on 2002-09-11 15:33 ]</font>

[chas]

Serpent wrote:

Every generation has it's "rebels". We're all the same. Teenage kids are, by and large, just as much a bunch of sh*t now as we were in our teens. And, like us, they don't recognize the fact, and won't until they're (possibly) in their thirties.

One other thing. You smoke too much weed, you go to sleep. You drink too much alcohol, you die. Considering the punishment for excess, I think the former is probably preferable...

You're so right -- awhile back I saw a bunch of youth in the pants with the crotches hanging around their knees and wondered if they knew how stupid they looked. Then I thought back on the skintight hiphuggers with elephant-ears, the granny glasses, etc. And we thought we were so groovy. Watch Woodstock again -- the music is much better than 90% of the pop out there today, but the people look even sillier.

The big problem with alcohol is that it takes so long to get into your system. You may still be doing shots when you actually took the fatal one 15 minutes ago. The last bong hit should hit you in a couple of minutes.

Ceolach wrote:

I have an Masters Degree, hold a respectable steady job, play the hell out of a copeland Low D, own my own home and smoke Cannabis regularly. I don't think I'm much different from the "average recreational" pot user except for the Copeland part of the equation.

I was stoned pretty much continuously in college, and frequently till about halfway through my PhD in physics. I gave it up because of the persistence of it in ones system, since I was possibly looking at employment in a military or weapons lab. I haven't touched it in close to 15 years and only miss it occasionally. I'm neither proud nor ashamed of it. I honestly think it did make me more intellectual since it made me a lot more introspective.

[The Weekenders]

I see thread is still alive. I had made my last word but now say this:

Several comments pointed out that intoxication is as old as man and I agree.

But I think people are taking more drugs now than ever before. Sanctioned drugs, because of the pharmaceutical companies power, the rise of secular therapy culture and an overall belief in scientific/medical approaches for curing psychological disorders.

Unsanctioned drugs because of the omnipresent reasons though the flourishing illicit drug trade has its advertising and interests as well which coincide with youth and esoteric need for rebellion.

I have no scientific data to prove that a larger percentage of people are getting some kind of buzz, but it sure feels like it and I think that people rebel from the passive-aggressive couch culture that corporate interests would bestow on us for maximum consumer behavior..
That was nature of observation.
It feels like more people want out of the Matrix, ya know??

[Walden]

You hippies and your 'flower power' ways! I tell you what!