Experts, help!

[asopp83]

Hello,

I'm new to the Chiff and Fipple world, but I've been enjoying reading all the posts!

Here's my situation, in a nutshell:

I'm a proffessional classical flutist, and I'm wanting to learn traditional irish music. I have been attending sessions regularly in NYC, and have totally fallen in love...I'm sure you can all relate! I had the oppurtunity to try a colleage's 6-keyed Olwell flute, but I just don't think that a) I can wait that long and b) I can afford that now...or ever (I'm still paying for my goldilocks Boehm flute). Just for reference, the Olwell is the only simple system flute I've played...(excluding Baroque Flute, which I play regularly)...I have been in touch with Doc Jones (!!!), and he told me a little about some different flutes he has that meet my needs. I want a Pratten style, keyless flute...

I can get a Copley-Boegli, a Copeland Flute, or a McGee (rounded rectangle, or 2 semi-circle)...

In your opinion, is there any flute in this bunch that stands out? Perhaps if you own one of these flutes could you write a description of it? I am so ready to write my check and get a flute, but I want to make the best decision possible given my limited knowledge!

Thanks so much!
Alex

[bradhurley]

One thing to consider is the proximity of the maker in case things go wrong or you want to bring it in for a "tuneup" in a few years. Dave Copley's flutes are very good and he's not too far away, so that might be a good choice. Michael Copeland is even closer, but I haven't seen any of his recent flutes so can't comment. Another maker to consider is Seth Gallagher, who lives up the Hudson near Cold Spring, NY, I believe. He's making Pratten-style flutes; I've played a couple of them and they're very good.

If you're not dead-set on a Pratten-style flute, you might consider Bryan Byrne, who makes exquisite Rudall and Rose style flutes; he's based in Vermont. The Rudall is a bit more intimidating for a beginner (not that you're a beginner, but you might feel like one when you first play a Rudall!) because you have to use a different technique for getting a strong and in-tune bottom D, but in my experience the sound of a Rudall-style flute tends to be richer and more complex than most Prattens. You'll hear people say that Rudall flutes are quieter but there's not much truth to that; in the hands of a good player, a Rudall can be as loud or louder than any Pratten. Loudness is more a function of focus than anything else, and that depends as much on the player as the flute.

[scooter587]

I play a Copley keyless. It's a great flute, but not strictly a Pratten style. It'll bark and go edgy like a Pratten if you want, but it's also capable of more complex tonal "ruddallesque" colors. And plenty loud for sessions.

(Edited to add that I'm no expert--only been playing flute a few years. My opinion is often wrong and nearly always stupid. )

[jim stone]

Check PMs please--top right of this page

[Cathy Wilde]

I like my McGee Pratten just fine. And if you're a serious flute player, you probably have a tight enough embouchure to get a good focus sound out of the big old rounded-rectangles blowhole ....

Just my .02 .... good luck!

[herbivore12]

You might consider John Gallagher (not to be confused with Seth Gallagher), as well. He's in West Virginia, and he has a fairly short waiting list (or used to -- I gather it's growing longer now!), and his flutes are superb. He'll send you references from other flute-players, if you ask him. Harry Bradley reported finding the Gallagher he played to be very fine, and Harry's praise is an awfully good recommendation!

I had a McGee (a Rudall-style flute, though) with the rounded-rectangles embouchure cut; it was, as Cathy notes, really easy to blow. You can even use a pretty relaxed, almost Boehm-ish embouchure on the thing. I feel like it made for a sort of bright-ish (and loud!) sound. I find that I prefer the tone and flexibility I get from a traditional oval embouchure hole, though. It takes work, but it's worth the effort.

[talasiga]

I am not an expert - just a wannabe psychic .....
seriously, I would suggest you get a simple system flute with a similar embouchure to your Boehm flute If you are happy with the latter. I know Terry McGee does a range of embouchures for a range of reasons.

There would be enough stuff to contend with in playing a keyless simple system vis a vis your chromatic flute let alone having to adjust to embouchure issues too much.

(oops, I have just noticed herbivore's advice and mine seems to contradict it. There is little parity between herbivore and myself. I have over 12 flutes but I have only ever owned and played one Irish flute for any length of time.)

[I.D.10-t]

I guess the real question is what did asopp83 like about the Olwell compared to the Boehm?

If it was the change in embouchure, the sound of a classical bore, or the open holes for slurs (although French keys would take care of that, Right?). The embouchure of the Olwell should be a nice midrange of the Braque and Silver flute's embouchure so perhaps the best of both worlds (although a new head for the Boehm flute could made). The level of power between the two flutes would also seem to be split by the classic styled flute. Granted tuning must be different from the two flutes, I just don't understand what differences asopp83 is looking for in a Pratten or Rudall and Rose other than what the classic bore would provide.

Sorry I do not have any real input, I am genuinely curious about the subtle differences that I don't understand.

[Henke]

It's always difficult to choose a flute when you don't have much experience with the particular style of flutes, as in this case with irish flutes.
It's very easy to get drowned in the sea of recomendations about different makers. The truth is that all the makers who are professionals and recomended on this board (by experienced players) are very good.
The questions you need to ask yourself is, what are you looking for in a flute of this kind? I would guess that you are not looking for something designed to be similar to your Boehm flute. Irish trad can be played, and is played on the Boehm (and more commonly the Radcliffe) style flute by a few respected players, it can be done. But if you acctually want to get a wooden flute you probably want it to have some of the characteristics of a traditional style flute.
If this is true, I would definately not go for a rounded rectangle embouchure.
Furthermore, do you want keys? Do you want them straight away or can you wait and have them retrofitted later (this is possible eighter with pin mounted keys, or on a body which has the key blocks already prepared)?
How much are you willing to pay?
How much effort are you willing to put down to learn to play it good? Some flutes are easy to get a full, rich sound of straight away if you are an experienced Boehm fluter, some takes a lot more work but are generally more rewarding in the end (greater tonal varieties available and so on).
If you just want to pick it up and play good straight away, get a Pratten with a rounded rectangles embouchure, if you are willing to go deeper and put down more practice time, a Rudall style with traditional oval embouchure might be a better choice.

Figure out what you want the flute to be first, which style and what road you want to go. Then look for a maker who makes flutes to fit this description.

[johnkerr]

Here's my situation, in a nutshell:

I'm a proffessional classical flutist, and I'm wanting to learn traditional irish music. I have been attending sessions regularly in NYC... Just for reference, the Olwell is the only simple system flute I've played...(excluding Baroque Flute, which I play regularly)... I want a Pratten style, keyless flute... I am so ready to write my check and get a flute, but I want to make the best decision possible given my limited knowledge!

Thanks so much!
Alex

Alex, given your background, current situation and location, I have a suggestion for you. When facing a new circumstance and wondering what to do, it's always helpful to seek the counsel of someone else who's been through the same situation and negotiated it successfully. There are really not that many people around, either on this board or in real life, who have made the transition from classical Boehm flute to Irish flute. There are some unique aspects to that transition that those like myself who have only played simple-system Irish flutes may not be in the best position to advise you on. But since you are in NYC, you may be in luck, for in early July two people who might be able to give you some unique insight into your situation will be in residence for a week just a fairly short drive (1-1/2 hours or so) away from you, at the Catskills Irish Arts Week in East Durham NY. (The website is www.east-durham.org/irishartsweek .) Sometime during that week you might want to take a drive up there and seek these two ladies out for a chat.

The first would be Laura Byrne, who is a conservatory-trained Boehm flute player who several years ago made the switch to Irish music and has done so well at it that she's now regularly engaged as a teacher at this week and at other venues. AFAIK, she doesn't play classical music any more (at least not professionally), and indeed she may well tell you that in order to play Irish music well you may need to give up the classical music yourself. (I'm just speculating there, though, based on the fact that there are very few people around who are really capable of playing both at a high level.) I first met Laura at a session when she was just getting started in Irish music, and then she was still playing the silver Boehm flute. She's since moved on to an Olwell Pratten-style flute and is now playing a Rudall-style Grinter. As Brad said, even for those who have been playing Irish flute for some time there are profound differences between Rudall and Pratten style flutes, and I would assume that for someone who's an accomplished player of the Boehm flute there may be even more noticeable advantages/disadvantages to one style flute over the other. Laura, having played all three kinds of flute very well, may be able to give you some great insight on what flute would be best for you.

The other person you might want to seek out up in East Durham is Joanie Madden, the well known leader of the band Cherish the Ladies. Joanie is one of the rare few players around who can do true justice to Irish music on the Boehm flute. She was forced to learn on the Boehm because back when she started that was the only flute she could get. She did tell me once, many years ago now, that she had gotten a wooden flute and was working on learning it, with the hope of playing it with the band some day. Joanie is a consummate musician, and I have no doubt that if she's been working on the wooden flute for all this time she's bound to be a better player on it than the likes of myself (who's been playing for 15 years now), yet on stage she still plays the Boehm flute. There must be a reason for that. I guess my point here is that if you talk with Joanie, you may discover that you don't need to buy a wooden flute at all to play Irish music. Again, though, only someone who's doing that successfully is really in a position to advise you there, which is why I think it would be worth your while to spend a few minutes with Joanie.

You don't need to go up there for the whole week, just a day or two would be enough. Check the published class schedule to find out where Laura and Joanie are teaching, and try to catch them after their class gets out. I'm sure they both would be able to spare a few minutes to talk with you about flutes, if not right then at least sometime during the day. If you can't make it up there, you could try getting in touch with them via their websites, www.laurabyrne.com and www.cherishtheladies.com . Laura lives in Baltimore and Joanie lives in NYC - so you could also ask around at the sessions you attend and someone there might know how to get in touch with her.

Good luck!

[asopp83]

Thanks so much to everyone who has replied...I guess I never expected this to be easy, considering its taken me my whole life to find my perfect Boehm flute setup, and I'm still not totally there yet!

I'm not looking for something that will be "easy"...besides that, I play many different kinds of flute and have no trouble making subtle changes to my embouchure. I would love a flute that will end up being rewarding in the long run, if you know what I mean...I now feel I have some really good, sound advice to move forward with my search, thanks to you guys!

And thanks for the info on that festival...I'll try to bus myself up there and check it out!

I'll post when I get things figure out and let you know how its going! (Keep your fingers crossed)...

Alex

[Uncle Jaque]

Well; I'm impressed! You all sound like a bunch of wine connisuers (see; i can't even spell it ) talking about "Nose" and "head" and "vintage" and such.... shucks; I'll just stick with "Ripple", thanks!

Since I'm a po' ol' Yankee and can't afford a decent Irish flute, I just took an old piano leg I scrounged out of the dump and made one!



The "Gilead" in low "G".

Sounds pretty good, too, if I do say so myself.

Got a lathe? Does your dump allow dumpster diving?

Seriously though... if you can try a few different instuments at sessions, you'll probably get a better idea of what "fits" best.