Is there life on other planets?

[Dale]

When do you use the word "phenomena" and when do you use "phenomenon"?

I typed "content" when I meant "contend."

I typed "phenomena" when I should have typed "phenomenon."

I have not rotated my tires yet and I'm overdue.

I need to make an appointment with my M.D. and my dentist.

Sometimes I despair of the political situation in the U.S.


Anything else I can help you with?

[bradhurley]

You need a bit more than that for evolution - you need isolation mechanisms too.

Only when you're talking about evolution of new species. But species evolve within themselves too (e.g., adaptation; this is a more common form of evolution than the evolution of new species), and for that you don't need isolation mechanisms.

"Highly-evolved" is a bit fraught. An organism that's well adapted may stick around without changing much for a very long time, like cockroaches, whereas humans are the products of recent and rapid evolution.

There are two basic kinds of natural selection: stabilizing selection and directional selection. Stabilizing selection maintains designs that work...it's what has kept cockroaches looking and acting like cockroaches for millions of years. Directional selection happens when the environment changes or a new species is still adapting to its environment and there are a lot of selection pressures for change.

So you could argue that a cockroach is highly evolved because it fine-tuned its design a long time ago...it's "perfectly" adapted to the range of environments that it lives in and is no longer evolving in any significant way.

[fiddleronvermouth]

For some reason people find the idea of aliens zipping around in our atmosphere very difficult to believe. I don't. Why wouldn't there be?

You could just as easily ask "why would there be aliens quietly zipping
about", not making their presence know to the population at large, and
not trying to just take over, enslave humans, and control our resources.

Yes you could. I only ask "Why not?" because I've got good (though personal and philosophically based) reasons to feel this particular cup is slightly more than half full, and I can't come up with equally good reasons to assume it's impossible or unlikely.

Plus I subject the notion of alien life forms to the same scrutiny and skepticism I subject the discovery of improbable life forms on earth, such as tube worms that live in 400 degree C water and feed on methane and hydrogen sulfide.

In other words, "not much scrutiny and skepticism". If some zoologist tells me this is a real bird:



I say "Wow, I never would have imagined there could be such a thing!" Not "You are an attention-seeking quack, or a crazy person, and this photo is probably a fraud".

And there is precedent for life being discovered where no life was believed to exist:

When we think of what hell might be like, we often envision it to be hot and dark with an unimaginable stench. There are, however, many organisms that are more than happy to call this type of environment home. There are bacteria living in these places that constitute the basis of incredibly unique ecosystems. These bacteria use toxic chemicals as food and give off nutrients that sustain other forms of life. Not only do these bacteria support life in their environment, they may enhance ours as well. There are certain locations between the tectonic plates deep under the ocean where burning hot magma, at temperatures well above 1000 oC, erupt to form new crust. Sea water that seeps down into these fissures is heated and flushed out hydrothermal vents. The water leaving these vents can reach temperatures up to 380o C and it is only the high pressure that keeps this water from boiling. The heat, even though extreme, is contained in a small area, because the water temperature within inches of the vent drops to about 2 oC. These temperature changes, combined with toxic chemicals and extreme darkness, make this a very harsh environment for life. Life does, however, exist in this environment. In 1976, during a geological mapping expedition, one of the most important biological discoveries of the century was made. A thriving ecosystem existed around these hydrothermal vents. What is so fascinating is the possibility that life can exist without any connection to the sun. Until this date, there was believed to be a "probable zero of life" zone (Hedgpeth, 1957) where no life could exist.

source

Reports help persuade me that the occurence of life is the rule, rather than the exception. To my reasoning, if we have life on earth from the very bottom of the sea to the top of the loneliest mountain, from the poles to the equator, in EVERY nook and cranny, consuming everything from toxic volcanic gas to hamburgers for sustinence, then the occurrence of life must be part of the package wherever matter collects in sufficient quantities and for a sufficient length of time to sustain it.

The other thing that surprised me was the consistency of their reports. I wouldn't expect that if the events were fabricated.

There's a folklore that goes along with aliens. If you ask two people
to describe, say, a leprachan, their descriptions might differ a bit,
but would mostly be consistant. Same would go for aliens.
An interesting experiment would be to get a person who hadn't read
the book and hadn't ever experienced an abduction to make up an
abduction story. I'd be willing to bet his story would be pretty close
to many in the book.

I think I might have to read that, though. Sounds interesting.
I'm not necessarily a hardnosed sceptic, I just think every devil
needs an advocate.

That's a great idea. We should invent stories of alien abduction now off board, then submit them all at the same time - no cheating, no conferring - then see how similar they are. Then we could see if they differ from the stories recounted in the book.

[djm]

So you could argue that a cockroach is highly evolved because it fine-tuned its design a long time ago

Or you could take it from Kilgore Trout's (aka Kurt Vonnegut) point of view that giant cockroaches colonized the galaxy by stopping here for a picnic, and that we are the result of the evolution of bacteria from the giant cockroaches' droppings.

Or maybe not ...

djm

[fiddleronvermouth]

Right, so here's the project:

Since there ought to be set criteria to compare our fake abductions, I've come up with a few basic questions we can answer to ensure there is something to compare:

• Did anything odd happen before, during, or after the encounter that stands out in your memory?
  
  What did the space ship look like? What did it sound like?
  
  What did the aliens look like?
  
  Did the aliens communicate with you? If so, how?
  
  Were you subjected to any kind of examination? If so, can you describe it?
  
  Did you learn the purpose of their interest in you? If so, what was it?
  
  Anything else you’d like to add?

If you want to submit an alien abduction, please avoid this thread until you're ready to post, and please refrain from backing your report up with internet research before writing it. (This is in an effort to emulate people who are imagining an abduction based on pop culture while sincerely believing it to be real).

[Dale]

... and that we are the result of the evolution of bacteria from the giant cockroaches' droppings.


djm

It would explain a lot.

[fearfaoin]

Right, so here's the project:

Fun! Should we post them here, or elsewhere?

[fiddleronvermouth]

Right, so here's the project:

Fun! Should we post them here, or elsewhere?

Post 'em here, but while you're writing don't cheat by coming in and reading the other ones. (Note to future: If you've read this far and there are pages to follow, please don't read the answers of others if you want to contribute your own.)

[fearfaoin]

Did anything odd happen before, during, or after the encounter that stands out in your memory?

Well, beforehand I was asleep, and when I was awakened, I felt like
someone was there. I went to get up and look around, but I couldn't
seem to move. There was a bright light, like the lights used at night
games at the football field: harsher than sunlight, but just as bright.
Then, I felt a floating sensation, and a metallic smell hit me. The
next thing I knew, I was in a strange room.

What did the space ship look like? What did it sound like?

The room was metalic, and rounded. There was a very low hum,
more like a rumble. There were some kind of tools hanging from
the ceiling.

What did the aliens look like?

The aliens were short (about 4 feet tall), grey, and hairless. Their
eyes were very large, and they had nostril slits instead of noses.
I couldn't tell if they they had mouths or not. Their limbs were long
and thin. Their faces were kind of heart-shaped, the top part with
the eyes much wider than the bottom.

Did the aliens communicate with you? If so, how?

Yes, telepathically. But not with words, just with soothing feelings.
I was scared but they made me relax.

Were you subjected to any kind of examination? If so, can you describe it?

Oh, my yes. They drew my blood and other fluids. They used a tube
to get a sample of my sperm. They injected me with something, but
it didn't seem to have any immediate effect.

Did you learn the purpose of their interest in you? If so, what was it?

No, they didn't share that with me.


----------

This is tough! The devil's in the details. I think I lost this bet.

[Tril Bluejacket]

For those who haven't read the last few posts, an experiment is going on to see how similar fake abduction stories often are. Please read the instructional post (it's a few ahead of this post) if you'd like to participate. If you plan to take part in the experiment, please don't read the rest of this post until after you've submitted yours.

~~

I was driving alone on a gravel county road one clear summer night, when I noticed one star in the moonless sky that appeared brighter than the rest. Whenever I glanced up at the star, it was in a slightly different location, and then it began to grow larger and larger, until suddenly it no longer resembled a star but a disc-shaped object with red and green blinking lights encircling its base. The blinking lights made it possible to distinguish its shape. It was hard to judge its distance, because I had no idea how large the disc was.

All at once, there was a large flash, and for an instant the sky lit up like daylight. Terrified, I swerved to the shoulder of the road and stopped. My car's engine konked out. As I sat stunned, unable to move a muscle, I gradually felt a force pulling me out of the car, and I wanted to kick myself for not having worn my seatbelt...but as I said, I couldn't move a muscle. At that point, I think I swooned from fright.

When I awoke, I was strapped down on some kind of long narrow table. All around me were beings of various heights, from about four feet tall to maybe seven, and they were all looking down at me. They were greyish in color and very thin. They had spindly arms and legs and no hips that I could see. Because I noticed what might have been small scars on some of the beings, I thought that since the beings all looked very much alike, they were probably naked, even though I couldn't see any navels or whatnot. Their heads were large and so were their eyes, which didn't blink, so at first I thought maybe the beings were wearing masks. But then their little lipless mouths, which were nothing more than slits, began to twitch. I sensed they were communicating with each other in a frequency out of my hearing range - not that I could have understood what they were saying anyway.

Then the tallest one leaned into my face and I preceived (not really heard but sensed) a humanlike voice in my head saying not to fear, because I would be let go after they took some biological samples from me. I thought, You want to steal my ova, you b-stards! You want to grow human/ET crosses in test tubes! No way! I tried to struggle free and escape, but I was still frozen. I know the beings read my mind, because when I thought that, they all looked at each other at the same time.

The voice said they'd been watching over me all my life, and that I had been taken before, as a child, though I'd been asleep at the time and probably remembered it as a dream. The voice reminisced about the happiest moments in my life, and I relived them. It was like watching a movie. I was soon oblivious to the pain of the needles as they were inserted into every part of my body, and I think I drifted off into unconsciousness.

The next thing I knew, I was in my car again. When I looked out the window, the disc was gone. I kept thinking about them taking my ova, and I thought their species might be interested in live-bearing Earth species like humans, because they themselves probably couldn't bear their big-headed young alive since their species' pelvises were too narrow. I wished I could have asked them what planet they were from, and where it was.

Sometimes I have an itch above my left ear, and when I scratch it, I think I feel a little nodule. Maybe it's some kind of implant.

~~

[fiddleronvermouth]

Ooh - you guys are good!

Here's mine - it's not a great example because I had to try to forget (aka "change") a few details from the consistent stories from the book and try to remember what I would have said before I read it:


Did anything odd happen before, during, or after the encounter that stands out in your memory?

All the lights in the neighbourhood went out, the dogs went nuts, and the crickets stopped chirping.

What did the space ship look like?

It was a silver disc with blinding white light shining from the sides. It had no windows, and it made a kind of low humming noise with a burbly kind of Jetson car type noise.

What did the aliens look like?

They had big slanty eyes, were about three feet tall, had olive green skin, no noses and big wide mouths, like Kermit the frog.

Did the aliens communicate with you? If so, how?

Telepathy – I heard words in my head.

Were you subjected to any kind of examination? If so, can you describe it?

They stuck a big needle in my eye, same as they did to David Duchovny, and took biopsies from my major organs with a kind of a laser thingy.

Did you learn the purpose of their interest in you? If so, what was it?

They told me I’m to gather believers together to be collected by them on Judgement day and create a super-race of human / alien hybrid beings to colonize new worlds.

Anything else you’d like to add?

Yes, you can all catch me on Maury Povitch June 30 at 2:00 PM EST, and where do I pick up my check?

[gonzo914]

• Did anything odd happen before, during, or after the encounter that stands out in your memory?
  
  What did the space ship look like? What did it sound like?
  
  What did the aliens look like?
  
  Did the aliens communicate with you? If so, how?
  
  Were you subjected to any kind of examination? If so, can you describe it?
  
  Did you learn the purpose of their interest in you? If so, what was it?
  
  Anything else you’d like to add?

To that, you should add --

• Rectal Probe? Yes _____ No _____ (Check only one, unless you are describing multiple abductions)

[fiddleronvermouth]

To that, you should add --

• Rectal Probe? Yes _____ No _____ (Check only one, unless you are describing multiple abductions)

I thought that was too personal.

[SteveShaw]

You need a bit more than that for evolution - you need isolation mechanisms too.

Only when you're talking about evolution of new species. But species evolve within themselves too (e.g., adaptation; this is a more common form of evolution than the evolution of new species), and for that you don't need isolation mechanisms.

"Highly-evolved" is a bit fraught. An organism that's well adapted may stick around without changing much for a very long time, like cockroaches, whereas humans are the products of recent and rapid evolution.

There are two basic kinds of natural selection: stabilizing selection and directional selection. Stabilizing selection maintains designs that work...it's what has kept cockroaches looking and acting like cockroaches for millions of years. Directional selection happens when the environment changes or a new species is still adapting to its environment and there are a lot of selection pressures for change.

So you could argue that a cockroach is highly evolved because it fine-tuned its design a long time ago...it's "perfectly" adapted to the range of environments that it lives in and is no longer evolving in any significant way.

Ah, 'tis a complicated subject and 'tis 35 years since I studied it at university. Now where's Darwin when you need him!

[gonzo914]

To that, you should add --

• Rectal Probe? Yes _____ No _____ (Check only one, unless you are describing multiple abductions)

I thought that was too personal.

OK -- then how about --

• Width of trailer: 12 ft. _____ 14 ft. _____ Double-wide _____