Danger of Wood Cracking?

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:20 am

There's been lots of discussion about maintenance issues for wooden whistles. Most people say it's really minimal, just swabbing and occasional oiling. Others mention worries about cracking. Is this a realistic worry, assuming the whistle is carefully handled? Has anyone ever had a whistle crack just because the wood dries out over time?

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:10 am

Some whistles will crack if the wood hasn't been properly seasoned before (or during) manufacture, or if it was manufactured in a region with a completely different humidity level than the one it lives in. When these issues come into play, there is little one can do to prevent cracking. The beauty (both in appearance and in playability) of wood makes up for the risk of cracking.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:41 am

Jessie really put that perfectly. The only other thought from my experience is that some woods are more or less intrinsically stable than others, all other factors being held equal. For example, in pieces that arrived without discernible cracks (this can require incredibly intensive examination, not just eyeballing), both in instruments and in custom knives, African blackwood has consistently held up for me as well as metal and plastic even without in some cases any care whatever (though not recommended). I've also found cocobolo and ironwood to be very stable. More exotic woods like red lancewood or various maples have cracked over time in my home environment, even with proper maintenance.

I have several wood whistles for years (Thin Weasel cocobolo, Abell blackwood and Sweet blackwood) that have never been a problem despite radiated apartment NY heat. Maples and lancewoods and some others have cracked despite oiling.

Ivory is the most difficult (obtained legally through a museum), and I no longer collect custom knives with natural handles - nothing beats cord wrapped steel, micarta, G10, etc.

I also find that my metal and plastic (delrin and PVC pipe) whistles sound as good as wood, although it seems nothing quite matches the aesthetic beauty of wood if that's what floats yer boat.

This proves that although Jessie most certainly has more air than I for playing, I have more for blabbing.

Philo

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:25 am

PhilO wrote:Jessie most certainly has more air than I for playing....

Nope, not right now. But I play anyway. Who needs air? It's overrated.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:25 am

Good to see another knife collector! We'll talk in the Pub sometime.

With whistles, I think we've got it easy. While the moisture cycle is brutal on any mouth-blown woodwind, at least whistles don't have dozens of posts and long rod-linkages like oboes and clarinets. More metal and post holes, more havoc.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:12 pm

As Phil said the type of wood makes a difference. If you are worried about cracking, Blackwood, Cocobolo, Olivewood, and Ironwood are good choices. Boxwood is not a bad choice, but once it cracks it doesn't stop and it warps easily.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:40 pm

As Jessie says, there are a variety of reasons that wooden whistles can crack.

Number one in my book is improper seasoning: The wood MUST be properly seasoned before and during the manufacturing process - this includes years of seasoning after the wood is cut into billets, and then months between each of certain steps in the manufacturing process.

Failing this, the only way to prevent cracks is to know what humidity level the wood was seasoned to and manufactured at, and then keep the instrument very close to that RH for it's entire life.

Number two, although really still a part of number one, is instruments made in high humidity climates which then go to significantly lower humidity regions. A piece of wood can season for a thousand years, and then be "properly seasoned" during manufacture, but if all of this takes where the ambient humidity is 60-70%, and then the instrument goes to a climate where the humidity drops down into the 45% and levels, you're very likely to get cracks over time - particularly where tuning slides are involved.

The obvious way to avoid this problem is to season wood to different levely depending on what part of the world the instrument's purchaser lives in. Or, at least provide customers with info regarding what humidity level the instrument needs to stored at.

I agree in principal to some of what Phil has stated, that some woods are more prone to cracking than others, but I disagree with much of what he's said about which are most/least likely to crack. However that's a subject I don't have the time to get really deep into at the moment. Suffice it to say that much as I respect Phil O., and consider him a friend

I think his experience is a bit skewed with regards to observations on knife handles, because I believe woods more or less likely to crack depending on application, that is to say: Some woods will crack more when used as knife handles than when they are used in a woodwind, and vice versa.

One last note: Woods can be sealed (although pumping them full of PEG, and other chemicals is not a good idea), and this can make a HUGE difference with regards to how well the resist cracking.

Loren

dapple · Post by **dapple** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:28 pm

How about Dymonwood like Busman and Sweetheart use? I've read comments that it is a good choice for whistlers who are afraid of cracking? I've been thinking about getting my first wood whistle and thinking about getting one in Dymondwood. Does Dymondwood lack any of the stability or other benefits of the woods like Blackwood, Cocobolo, Olivewood, and Ironwood?

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:42 pm

I've not made instruments from Dymondwood, so I can't comment specifically. One would expect the stuff to be resistant to cracking, being laminated.

On the flip side, they used to make drumsticks from Dymondwood (back in the day when I still played drumset), and the Dymondwood Drumsticks were far less durable than hickory, oak, or even maple solid wood sticks.

But again, not too much can be drawn from that last bit, because as I mentioned earlier, woods hold up differently to different applications.

Loren

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:42 pm

Loren wrote:As Jessie says, there are a variety of reasons that wooden whistles can crack.

Number one in my book is improper seasoning: The wood MUST be properly seasoned before and during the manufacturing process - this includes years of seasoning after the wood is cut into billets, and then months between each of certain steps in the manufacturing process.

Loren

OK looks like it's narrowed to a few months between steps, and no stones throwen.

I cut some eastern red cedar and sealed the ends then let it dry in the garage. But the pine bark beetles got to it. The next time I cut some I sealed the ends and put it in the attic in the spring and the heat must have been enough to stop the pine bark beetles, and no splitting.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:49 pm

Tommy wrote:
Loren wrote:As Jessie says, there are a variety of reasons that wooden whistles can crack.

Number one in my book is improper seasoning: The wood MUST be properly seasoned before and during the manufacturing process - this includes years of seasoning after the wood is cut into billets, and then months between each of certain steps in the manufacturing process.

Loren
OK looks like it's narrowed to a few months between steps, and no stones throwen.

I cut some eastern red cedar and sealed the ends then let it dry in the garage. But the pine bark beetles got to it. The next time I cut some I sealed the ends and put it in the attic in the spring and the heat must have been enough to stop the pine bark beetles, and no splitting.

Well, no, that wasn't a recommendation for proper seasoning, that was simply a suggestion for a way to see the effects of changes over time.

It really depends on the wood, and how thick and long each section is. However, as a general rule, for whistles, I'd say bore the pilot hole and gun drill undersize, then let sit for a year. Turn and ream to final dimensions, and season for at least another 3 months for the more rapidly drying woods, 6 months to a year for some woods, then final ream, let sit for another month and test again. If you can hand ream with no more wood being removed, then your set.

This would be for an unsealed (soaking in oil alone doesn't count) instrument, resting times could be shortened somewhat if sealing the bore, and also, to a lesser extent, the exterior.

Recorders and flutes get seasoned longer, or should.

I realize most of the whistle makers here will likely disagree with me regarding seasoning times, but that's the way of things.

Loren

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:04 pm

dapple wrote:How about Dymonwood like Busman and Sweetheart use? I've read comments that it is a good choice for whistlers who are afraid of cracking? I've been thinking about getting my first wood whistle and thinking about getting one in Dymondwood. Does Dymondwood lack any of the stability or other benefits of the woods like Blackwood, Cocobolo, Olivewood, and Ironwood?

Dymondwood is pretty durable stuff. I own a Sweet Whistle and Flute made from the stuff and even though I don't play either that much they have the aestetic and sound qualities of wood, but the durablity and matinence qualities of plastics. Yes, it is a good choice if you are afraid cracking, and in the case of the Busman, you will never have a prblem with the rings falling off due to shrinkage of the wood which is a common problem on things with rings.

Dave Parkhurst · Post by **Dave Parkhurst** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:43 pm

because of the amount of resins used in the making of dymondwood, it's really, really resistant to cracking. You cause dymondwood to crack, you were making an effort to do so.
Dave

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:01 pm

Dymondwood sure is good stuff. But as with any material, it comes with its own challenges and issues and can crack under certain circumstances associated with the original manufacturer's quality control.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:06 pm

From the two Dymondwood whistles I've made, plus several pens I'd say Dymondwood was more like plastic than wood. It's brittle and you need to use very sharp tools and take shallow cuts. Once an instrument from this laminate is done though, moisture should not really be a major concern.