Mutability of Fingerhole Ergonomics

Jumbuk · Post by **Jumbuk** » Sun May 14, 2006 8:40 pm

jim stone wrote:Just to add that, when it comes to Bb flutes,
offset holes are indeed a blessing, IMO.

The 2.5 Shakuhachi I mentioned is effectively an Ab flute with a few holes missing, so i can imagine that an in-line Bb simple-system would be pretty difficult to finger!

Fishie · Post by **Fishie** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:54 am

I support the idea of making a flute more ergonimcally sound. I'm an industrial designer and human factors are a concern of my job. If a slight change like offsetting a hole can make the flute less stressful on the hands, then it's a good improvement. Human-made objects should conform to humans as well as possible, not the other way around. I don't think it is by any means 'just' a gimmick. Sure, it is a selling point, but it's one the truly adds value to the flute.

Doug makes a great point about design and puts it about as well as it can be put.

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:36 am

Jumbuk wrote:
jim stone wrote:Just to add that, when it comes to Bb flutes,
offset holes are indeed a blessing, IMO.
The 2.5 Shakuhachi I mentioned is effectively an Ab flute with a few holes missing, so i can imagine that an in-line Bb simple-system would be pretty difficult to finger!

I don't find this to be the case with my keyless Bb at all. The finger spread isn't really that much different to the D flute (but yer arms are further to the right to accommodate the increased distance between the embouchure hole and the tone holes).

I've got a D bamboo flute which has an offset G hole, and that hurts my G finger so much it's unplayable (by me). If the G was in line with the rest of the holes, I'd be able to play it without difficulty.

Just goes to show that people are different, I suppose.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:07 pm

I've noticed the same thing, Mary.

herbivore12 · Post by **herbivore12** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:00 pm

Yeah, I had a Burns Bb for a while, and actually found the offset fingerholes to be awkward to use. I wish they'd been in-line (if I had it to do over again, I'd've ordered the thing with in-line holes).

I found it strange, as Gary's noted, that the distance between fingerholes isn't much greater on a Bb than on a D; it does feel like you're reaching waaayyyy over to your right to get to the first holes, though!

I can't imagine what's wrong with offset holes if a body needs 'em, though. I wonder what percentage of folks really do need them, however, as I've seen pretty young wee kids playing along just fine on a full-size D flute with in-line holes. . .

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:42 pm

Just to say the offset holes appear to be standard on
Olwell Bb flutes--anyhow I got em and didn't ask for them.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:12 pm

Having once looked at my hands and realised that the fingers were not in-line, I decided on offset holes as the standard for my pvc flutes. Even on F and G flutes the holes are offset if they're for kids.

On my conical flutes I don't mind inline holes one bit, but my experience is pretty narrow. Big bansuris and my biggest plumbing monstrosities get the pinkie finger for the last hole.

Jumbuk · Post by **Jumbuk** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:23 pm

herbivore12 wrote:I can't imagine what's wrong with offset holes if a body needs 'em, though. I wonder what percentage of folks really do need them, however, as I've seen pretty young wee kids playing along just fine on a full-size D flute with in-line holes. . .

The danger is that the wee young kids don't find out they really need them until they have an irreversible muscular problem. We all know the importance of getting grip/posture etc right to avoid later problems - same goes for instrument.

Of course, many of us don't play enough for any of this to be a problem. However, it suddenly becomes very real if you do get aches and pains, so it is worth taking these issues seriously.