Set Dances

[Nanohedron]

Just got a CD (burned for me, no other details, sorry) with all 38 of the to-date accepted-for-competition tunes. I know a good enough number of them already. I want to go about learning them all, but this particular copy, I am told, is more for the dancer's and teacher's benefit in recognising the tunes than for the musician as regards how they are definitively to be played (how many times the A part is played, etc.) when the time comes for it.

Could anyone point me to similarly comprehensive recordings with the musician in mind? I'd also greatly appreciate if such recordings offered some greater "musicality", too (personal flair, variations, that sort of thing). Fiddles, pipes, what have you (even more accordion, heh) would be great.

Thanks in advance.

[djm]

There are far more than 38 tunes for set dances. It is the number of bars that matters in set dances, not the specific tunes. A good example would be the set of 6 cassette tapes from NPU - Music for the Sets. There are two music books that go with these tapes - Music for the Sets - Blue Book and Yellow Book, compiled by David J Taylor - that show how the tunes are spread out to match the exact number of bars determined by the particular set dances involved.

djm

[johnkerr]

"Set dances" is a term that has two distinct and totally different meanings in the world of Irish dancing. To the solo stepdancer (you know, those girls with the curly wigs and expensive velvet dresses) a "set dance" is a series of steps that is done to a particular piece of music, such as The Three Sea Captains or Madame Bonaparte. These tunes typically have the feel of a jig or hornpipe, but have an irregular number of bars in either the A or B part (i.e. one or both parts will either be shorter or longer than the standard eight bars). The dancing masters of old devised steps to fit these irregular tunes and they have been danced to the present day in competitions. Usually these set dances have a fixed part that is always danced the same way and another part where the individual dancer can create his/her own particular steps. As Nanohedron mentions, there are apparently 38 set dance pieces that have been approved by the Irish Dance Commission for use in competitions (feisanna). The two I named earlier are on this list, but there are other set dance tunes as well that have not been included there, such as The Drunken Gauger. The Blackbird, which is a very old and very familiar tune with a lot of different versions, is a set dance piece in one of its versions and I have seen it danced on several occasions, usually by older dancers. I'm not sure if it's on the official competition list or not.

The set dances referred to by djm on the other hand are social dances done in square sets of four couples, much like American square dances. They are descended from the "sets of quadrilles" done in high society in the 19th century, and were adapted by the country folk to be danced to the local jigs, reels and hornpipes - or in Kerry to slides and polkas. There has been a great revival of interest in these sets over the last 25 years in Ireland and beyond, and they have become very popular. The Caledonian, the Plain Set, the Lancers Set and the like are all examples of this type of set dance. These sets all consist of multiple figures (typically the dancers wil stop in between figures of a set, but not always), with each figure being done to a particular type of tune, be it a reel, jig, polka, slide or hornpipe. There are no specific tunes that need to be played for these set dances - if it's a reel figure, any reel will do, and so forth. (Although because the number of bars of music needed for these set dance figures is quite idiosyncratic, some tunes will work better than others, especially if ending the tune at the same time the figure ends is a concern.)

As for recordings of set dance tunes, for the first kind (the solo dances) there are some excellent versions of a few of the 38 tunes on Eugene O'Donnell's recording called "Slow Airs and Set Dances". It was released on Green Linnet many years ago so it may be out of print now, but if you can find it it's a great one. Eugene O'Donnell was a fiddler from Derry who lived in Philadelphia for most of his life. (AFAIK he's still alive and living in Derry, but he's very old and had to quit playing several years ago.) In his youth he was a champion stepdancer, and he carried that over into his fiddling by playing brilliant versions of many of the dance pieces he'd danced to in his younger days. He was also known as a master of the slow air, hence the title of his album.

For the social set dances, the Music for the Sets cassettes and books mentioned by djm are indeed great. Unlike much music recorded for set dancers, which is frequently abominable, this collection is both eminently listenable as well as danceable. It's great Irish music in its own right, done 20 years ago by musicians who were then virtually unknown but who are now household names. Paul O Shaughnessy, Brendan Begley and Paul McGrattan pre-Beginish, to name just a few who played on this collection. It's well worth seeking out. It may have made it over to CD at some point, but I don't know.

Hope this helps to alleviate some of the confusion...

[Nanohedron]

Yes, John, it is the solo step or "long" dances to which I refer. I prefer the term "long dances" to avoid confusion with the dance "sets", but when I mention "long dances", all I usually get is a "Huh?".

...but there are other set dance tunes as well that have not been included there, such as The Drunken Gauger. The Blackbird, which is a very old and very familiar tune with a lot of different versions, is a set dance piece in one of its versions and I have seen it danced on several occasions, usually by older dancers. I'm not sure if it's on the official competition list or not.

The list indeed includes The Drunken Gauger and The Blackbird. Eight of the tunes on the official list, I am told, are reportedly "new", such as The Fiddler 'Round the Fairy Tree and The Four Masters. One of the new ones (I forget the name right now) is definitely a box or fiddle tune; no other ITM instuments (other than the family of stringed gizmos) could accommodate the range, but it'd be interesting to see if a key change could make it work on flute. Or I could make a hash of it with octave changes and stuff: "Of course that's yer tune. The other fellow was not very good at it."

Thanks, guys. Any more?

[johnkerr]

Yes, John, it is the solo step or "long" dances to which I refer. I prefer the term "long dances" to avoid confusion with the dance "sets", but when I mention "long dances", all I usually get is a "Huh?".

Of course, as you may or may not already realize, when you use the term "long dance" you invite confusion with a portion of the ceili dance repertoire. Ceili dances are another form of social dancing, aside from the set dancing I mentioned above, in which a single pattern of steps (called "threes and sevens") is used no matter what the dance is. Some ceili dances are done in square-ish sets of two or four or even eight couples, and these are often called "figure dances". (Examples would be the Four Hand Reel, the High Cauld Cap, the Sweets of May, etc.) Other ceili dances are done in long lines of couples similar to American contra dancing, and these dances are often called "long dances". (Examples would be the Walls of Limerick, the Seige of Ennis, etc.) There are also a few "round" ceili dances, which are (duh!) done in a circle. And in a further confusing intersection between the stepdance and social dance worlds, the "figure" ceili dances are often included in feis competitions, whereas the long and round dances aren't.

One would think that Irish dancers, being apparently so vocabulary-challenged that they need to use the same few words to describe totally unrelated dance forms, would avoid messing with terminology related to music. But one would be wrong about that, as stepdancers are notorious for asking for types of music that don't make any sense to the musician, such as a "treble jig". And people wonder why there is such a gulf between Irish dancers and Irish musicians!

The list indeed includes The Drunken Gauger and The Blackbird. Eight of the tunes on the official list, I am told, are reportedly "new", such as The Fiddler 'Round the Fairy Tree and The Four Masters.

Hey Nano, just out of curiosity would you happen to have that list of 38 set dances and if so would you be willing to post it? There are some lovely tunes there, and if I'm not mistaken at least a couple of them are O'Carolan tunes. Too bad they're not played more often. (I guess I do my bit by playing The Drunken Gauger. Glad to hear it made the official list!)

[Cynth]

Here is another question, as long as we are clearing up confusion:

Do the solo stepdancers (curly wigs) do dances other than the "set dances" described above? If so, what would an example be and what would they be called?

[Nanohedron]

Other ceili dances are done in long lines of couples similar to American contra dancing, and these dances are often called "long dances".

Yes, I'm all too familiar with those. My hands recoil when I think of their tendency for duration. Oddly enough, when performed, the rinnce fada or "long dances" to which I have been referring, are mercifully brief.

Here's the list as I have it. The ones with asterisks are the ones I have learned over time, the last just learned in the past couple of days. A couple of others or so, like the Ace and Deuce or Hurry the Jug, I might muddle through, not having practiced them enough:

1. The Lodge Road
2. Rodney's Glory*
3. Planxty Davis
4. King of the Fairies*
5. Downfall of Paris*
6. Ace and Deuce of Pipering
7. Youghal Harbor
8. Bonaparte's Retreat
9. The Hunt
10. Madame Bonaparte*
11. The Piper* (known to me as The Piper thro' the Meadow Straying)
12. Kilkenny Races
13. Rambling Rake
14. White Blanket*
15. The Blackbird*
16. Garden of Daisies*
17. Job of Journeywork*
18. St. Patrick's Day*
19. Is the Big Man Within?
20. The Three Sea Captains*
21. The Hurling Boys
22. Rub the Bag
23. Hurry the Jug
24. Drunken Gauger
25. Blackthorn Stick*
26. Journey to the Fair
27. Planxty Drury
28. Humors of Bandon*
29. Orange Rogue*
30. Ms. Brown's Fancy (note the politically correct appellation )
31. The Four Masters
32. The Roving Pedlar
33. The Blue-Eyed Rascal
34. The Wandering Musician
35. The Sprig of Shillelagh
36. The Story Teller
37. The Deep Green Pool
38. The Fiddler Around the Fairy Tree*

I'm given to understand that 31-38 are the "new" ones. 37 is the one only a boxplayer or fiddler could pull off without changes.

[Nanohedron]

Here is another question, as long as we are clearing up confusion:

Do the solo stepdancers (curly wigs) do dances other than the "set dances" described above? If so, what would an example be and what would they be called?

Single jigs, double jigs, treble jigs, slip jigs, hop jigs, reels, hornpipes...am I missing anything?

Slip jigs at competition are the fluteplayer's cross to bear. They go on forever, and when a score of dancers are being churned out one after another like an assembly line, it's an endurance run, big time.

[johnkerr]

Here is another question, as long as we are clearing up confusion:

Do the solo stepdancers (curly wigs) do dances other than the "set dances" described above? If so, what would an example be and what would they be called?

Yes. They dance reels (soft and hard shoe), jigs (which they have subdivided into several categories, among which is the treble jig I mentioned above), hornpipes (again, several categories thereof) and slip jigs (which I have always seen danced in soft shoes, although maybe they do hard shoes there as well). AFAIK there are no stepdances done to polkas or slides. (Probably some anti-Kerry bias going on there...)

BTW, the treble jig is nothing more than a jig played very slowly so that the dancer can cram in even more steps per beat than in a normal jig, thereby showing off their prowess even more. Maybe it's called a treble jig because they put in three times as many steps as they could at normal jig tempo, but I'm not sure about that. Stepdancers are also very anal about tempo, and will typically approach the musician with not just a request for the type of tune but also the metronome count to go with it. I have a friend who plays a lot at feis competitions, and he has a little teeny metronome that plugs into his ear like, well, an earplug. Doesn't look like fun to me, but apparently it pays well...

That's about the extent of my stepdancing knowledge.

[Nanohedron]

Yes, thanks for mentioning the other details such as hard and soft shoe dancing. Don't know about hard shoe and slip jigs, either. I've only seen soft shoe. Aesthetically it's my favorite dance; lovely, graceful, with gazelle-like leaps.

Doesn't look like fun to me, but apparently it pays well...

It's work, for sure, but oddly enough I enjoy it when I do it. As for pay, it can add up. Some people make practically a career out of it and travel around to the next feis and the next.

[Nanohedron]

Speaking of tunes that didn't make the list, there's another tune called The Ace and Deuce of Pipering in Amix with three parts that I much prefer to the standard one.

Don't know if it was ever danced, but there's also an irregular O'Carolan tune called O'Reilly of Athcairne in A Mixellaneous with an Fnat in the B section that's a favorite of mine. If it was never made into a set dance, it ought to have been.

I'm told there are many set dances that have dropped out of knowing, or at least are not for competition if they're at all danced.

[johnkerr]

Seeing this list, here are some recording sources for many of the tunes (thanks to thesession.org):

1. The Lodge Road
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
2. Rodney's Glory*
-Maiden Voyage by Various Artists
4. King of the Fairies*
-Up In The Air by Danu
5. Downfall of Paris*
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
6. Ace and Deuce of Pipering
-I GCnoc Na Grai by Noel Hill And Tony MacMahon
8. Bonaparte's Retreat
-Glackin by Paddy Glackin
9. The Hunt
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
10. Madame Bonaparte*
-Across The Waters - Irish Traditional Music From England by Various Artists
11. The Piper* (known to me as The Piper thro' the Meadow Straying)
-The Chieftains "Bells of Dublin" (Christmas album)
12. Kilkenny Races
-Mick Moloney with Eugene O'Donnell (Green Linnet)
15. The Blackbird*
-A Tribute To Michael Coleman by Joe Burke, Andy McGann And Felix Dolan
16. Garden of Daisies*
-MacMahon From Clare by Tony MacMahon
17. Job of Journeywork*
-The Bucks Of Oranmore by Joe Burke
18. St. Patrick's Day*
-Frankie Goes To Town by Frankie Gavin
19. Is the Big Man Within?
-Traditional Irish Music by James Kelly
20. The Three Sea Captains*
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
23. Hurry the Jug
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
24. Drunken Gauger
-the late Bobby Casey was a master at this one, don't know if he ever recorded it, though
25. Blackthorn Stick*
-Mick Moloney with Eugene O'Donnell (Green Linnet)
26. Journey to the Fair (is this perhaps Jockey to the Fair? More PC at work?
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
27. Planxty Drury
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
28. Humors of Bandon*
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances"
30. Ms. Brown's Fancy (note the politically correct appellation )
-Eugene O'Donnell "Slow airs and Set Dances" (Planxty Maggie Brown, O'Carolan I believe)

There are many other instances of recordings of some of these tunes listed in thesession.org's database, so here I've limited myself to CDs that I personally own so that I can vouch for the musicianship.

[Cynth]

Thanks for the answers. This thread has been really helpful in understanding the different sorts of dancing.

[Nanohedron]

Many thanks for your efforts, John. Now I have more CDs to buy if I want to hear other versions!

Yes, now that you point it out, "Jockey to the Fair" would be it. I'm told the Orange Rogue also has a PC alternate name, now: The Irish Rover or The Roving Irishman or some such.

Still, I would like to know about performance layout of the rinnce fada tunes. I'm only sure of St. Patrick's Day. After all, it doesn't pay to piss off the dancers, and particularly their mothers! Any one have sources to direct me to?

[Tia]

Just adding in some info for the kinds of dances, because I used to do irish dancing, we did slip jigs, reels and jigs in soft shoe, and treble jigs, hornpipes, treble reels and the set dances in hard shoe. The set dances would start off with either a hornpipe or treble jig then go into the song that it was named after, I'm not to sure on how it was put together because I didnt pay attention to those things when I danced but what was said early sound right to me , I've never heard of teh rinnce fada, with that name anyway, so I cant help you there sorry. but if you know another name, or describe I will try to help you if I knwo what youre talking about then