Elf Song EnChanter Whistle... good for experimental crossove

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:31 pm

I am not ready to take the piping plunge, but I am intrigued by the possibilities offered by the Elf Song EnChanter - a whistle with GHB fingerholes... is this a reasonable way to experiment with piping fingering? I know, of course, that there is soooo much more involved, but it seems a baby step worth taking.

Opinions and suggestions appreciated.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:54 pm

If you want to play Scottish pipes, buy a Scottish practice chanter.

If you want to play Irish pipes, buy a tin whistle, and eventualy a proper practice, half or full set.

There was some talk a few years back about the option of adding an Eb and back D hole to a standard tin whistle to allow some approximation of an uilleann chanter. There were a few makers who said they would/could pull it off. Can't remember all now though.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:10 pm

annie, I have copied some stuff that might help answer your question from the FAQ thread. I didn't know this was in there (gulp) but it is a bit hard to find if you don't know about it so I put it here:

"1. What is it about the mouthblown practice chanters that UP pipers don't like? Is it a completely different experience from what 'real' UP are like (such that it effectively 'ruins/spoils' playing)?

As for Uilleann practice chanters, the short answer is that it's impossible to have a decent mouth blown Uilleann reed. The long answer is that it's totally impossible to have a decent mouth blown Uilleann reed. The cane just can't stand warm moist air. The whistle's a perfectly good practice chanter.

2. I would like to add the following to the UP practice chanter vs. UP practice discussion:

Uilleann pipes are a BELLOWS BLOWN instrument.

A practice UP chanter can not teach a beginner the most important part of playing the UP: controlling the bag and the bellows.

If you just want to learn scales, tunes, and ornaments while awaiting the delivery of a practice set, the whistle is a much more economical way to tackle the problem. Much of what you learn on a whistle will transfer to the pipe chanter.

3. The point is that a UP practice chanter can not teach you to play the UP. The coordination of the bag and bellows is so fundamentally different from playing a mouthblown instrument that to treat it lightly is to invite defeat. Every UP teacher I have ever had, every accomplished piper I've talked to on the matter, every accomplished piper who had anything to say on the matter and every pipe tutor I've ever read/watched/listened to all agree on the primary importance of controlling the bag and the bellows while blowing and stopping the chanter.

If you just want to be a dabbler, then get a practice chanter. If you want to be a piper, then get a practice set.

Even if you "master" the UP practice chanter, you're still going to sound terrible and have to work hard at controlling a practice set. At least a whistle is an instrument that can be played with other trad instruments. I doubt that a UP practice chanter can teach you much more than practice chanters are unnecessary.

That's the pipes. There's no magic formula, no secrets, no shortcuts. They're expensive and hard to acquire. Be patient, save your money, and get the best instrument you can.

4. I am a seasoned pennywhistler...how closely matched are the whistle & pipe fingerings? Thanks.

Didn't you know that the pennywhistle leads to the dark side?????

Think sort of upside down, but essentially the same, as far as the top fingers lifted are concerned, plus some extras.

You have a thumb hole on the pipes to get octave d.
Pennywhistles, you raise as many fingers as possible, pipes usually only one or two fingers are off the chanter at any time, but the top hole of each fingering is at the same position on both instruments.

Pipes also have the "ghost D" hole that uses the pinkie of the bottom hand to cover.

Search the board and you will find some threads on fingerings for the pipes."

Here's the FAQ url.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... er&start=0

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:22 pm

Thank you. I "knew" that the UP is not a mouth-blown chanter, but I hadn't gotten so far into the thought process as to relate that to the whistle in question.

Ah well... it seemed a reasonable thing at the time. Now it just seems an apples and oranges comparison, and seems pretty dim of me.

Again, thanks for the input, the roadmap and the patience!

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:43 am

anniemcu wrote:Thank you. I "knew" that the UP is not a mouth-blown chanter, but I hadn't gotten so far into the thought process as to relate that to the whistle in question.

Ah well... it seemed a reasonable thing at the time. Now it just seems an apples and oranges comparison, and seems pretty dim of me.

Again, thanks for the input, the roadmap and the patience!

I don't think it was dim, don't be silly

. If the fingering of the chanter was something totally bizarre (sp) it could make sense to get a jump on things and see if a person could stand it or even do it. But I guess it is the least of the difficulties. Many people have asked about it or it would not be in the FAQ, believe me!

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:57 pm

Cynth wrote:
anniemcu wrote:Thank you. I "knew" that the UP is not a mouth-blown chanter, but I hadn't gotten so far into the thought process as to relate that to the whistle in question.

Ah well... it seemed a reasonable thing at the time. Now it just seems an apples and oranges comparison, and seems pretty dim of me.

Again, thanks for the input, the roadmap and the patience!
I don't think it was dim, don't be silly . If the fingering of the chanter was something totally bizarre (sp) it could make sense to get a jump on things and see if a person could stand it or even do it. But I guess it is the least of the difficulties. Many people have asked about it or it would not be in the FAQ, believe me!

I meant to say it was dim of me not to check the FAQs first. It's not like they are hard to locate.

I just hadn't put 2 and 2 together yet.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:40 pm

anniemcu wrote:
Cynth wrote:
anniemcu wrote:Thank you. I "knew" that the UP is not a mouth-blown chanter, but I hadn't gotten so far into the thought process as to relate that to the whistle in question.

Ah well... it seemed a reasonable thing at the time. Now it just seems an apples and oranges comparison, and seems pretty dim of me.

Again, thanks for the input, the roadmap and the patience!
I don't think it was dim, don't be silly . If the fingering of the chanter was something totally bizarre (sp) it could make sense to get a jump on things and see if a person could stand it or even do it. But I guess it is the least of the difficulties. Many people have asked about it or it would not be in the FAQ, believe me!
I meant to say it was dim of me not to check the FAQs first. It's not like they are hard to locate. I just hadn't put 2 and 2 together yet.

Well if you had I'm sure you would have been the first person to do so.

misterpatrick · Post by **misterpatrick** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:40 pm

I wouldn't mind a whiste that utilized a back d whole and a pinkie ghost d finger. While I agree that the best way to practice and get better at piping is piping, I like to be able to pick up the whistle now and then when I'm walking by it and practice a tune. The D and C always give me trouble and make it much harder to practice the ornamentation etc. So really, I end up just playing the South Wind or something easy on the whistle and wait to work on "real" tunes when I get a chance to strap the pipes on.

So, if anyone feels like making a $20 practice whistle, I'll buy one.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:29 pm

Annie, you did the right thing by posting your questions before buying.,.. so many haven't.

Do read the FAQS, just the FAQS ma'am.... you don't know how long I have waited to type that.

myrddinemrys · Post by **myrddinemrys** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:48 pm

Joseph E. Smith wrote:just the FAQS ma'am

*groan*
knee slapper

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:54 pm

Joseph E. Smith wrote:Do read the FAQS, just the FAQS ma'am.... you don't know how long I have waited to type that.

It took me like five minutes to get that, because in my head, FAQ is pronounced "Eff Ay Cue" rather than "Fack." Perhaps I'm an odd person?

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:15 pm

Congratulations wrote:
Joseph E. Smith wrote:Do read the FAQS, just the FAQS ma'am.... you don't know how long I have waited to type that.
It took me like five minutes to get that, because in my head, FAQ is pronounced "Eff Ay Cue" rather than "Fack." Perhaps I'm an odd person?

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:24 pm

Cynth wrote:
Congratulations wrote:
Joseph E. Smith wrote:Do read the FAQS, just the FAQS ma'am.... you don't know how long I have waited to type that.
It took me like five minutes to get that, because in my head, FAQ is pronounced "Eff Ay Cue" rather than "Fack." Perhaps I'm an odd person?
NO!

Good to know! I don't feel so left out, now.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:44 pm

Congratulations wrote:
Cynth wrote:
Congratulations wrote: It took me like five minutes to get that, because in my head, FAQ is pronounced "Eff Ay Cue" rather than "Fack." Perhaps I'm an odd person?
NO!
Good to know! I don't feel so left out, now.

I felt my slightly sarcastic tone might not be coming through so I changed my post!

Poor Congrats!

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:24 am

Cynth wrote:
Congratulations wrote:
Cynth wrote:NO!
Good to know! I don't feel so left out, now.
I felt my slightly sarcastic tone might not be coming through so I changed my post! Poor Congrats!