Don Imus: Enemy of Irish Music

[BrassBlower]

I sometimes avoid defending Joanie Madden and CTL on this forum. I have a conflict of interest because Joanie is a friend.

Y'all were probably wondering when I would weigh in, weren't you?

I am pretty much in the same boat as Dale, as I value my friendship with Mary and Joanie much more than music, theirs or anyone else's.

I'm with Dub on CTL. I've seen them twice, ill-advisedly bought a couple of their discs, and they simply don't do a thing for me.

And, of course, in matters of aesthetic taste, there's really no arguments to make: People are free to like or not like the music.

Take for example my EZFolk site. Dub and Chas probably wouldn't like it, but I'm OK with that. Yes, I know it's decidedly non-trad, heavy on the Carolans, and mostly recorded in two or three takes directly to the computer. Add to that, I'm no Mary Bergin and I'm also no Eric Clapton. Some listeners are probably saying "brilliant", while others are saying "how can this eejit call himself a musician?"

Anyway, I know of at least one appreciative listener here on this board.

Joanie & CTL get attacked sometimes for not being traditional enough--the age-old debate about pure forms of a musical genre vs. more broadly- appealing approaches (and more commercial) applies here.
But, putting aesthetics aside, I'll just point out that no person(s) on the planet, in my opinion, with the exception of The Chieftains, is more responsible for public interest in Irish music than Joanie Madden. Among other things, there'd be no C&F had I not heard Joanie play.

I like CTL. I like Fairport Convention and Clannad, too.

All this having been said, allow me to weigh in on the original post:

I recorded the entire Imus show, then transferred it to another tape, keeping only the parts that had to do with CTL. Yes, I left both Imus comments on the tape, but it makes what happened on the last song even funnier. Dale, when you watch your recording again, please notice that the last song was one of those creepy old Elizabethan songs, and pay special attention to Heidi's and Joanie's facial expressions. When I played the tape back, with this song directly on the heels of Imus's second comment, and watched Heidi and Joanie, I nearly fell out laughing! I definitely think our Ladies got the last laugh in this situation.

So high-fives to the Ladies, and Joanie, if you're reading this, you can always count on my support. Love ya!

Slainte,
Jim

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Wait a minute, this ugly schlunk reads the books written by his guests but can't find the time to listen to a few cuts of a CD?

[anniemcu]

How many people, like myself, ended up spending a good bit of money on "pure" Irish Trad, because he or she first heard The Chieftains?

/raises hand

Oh yeah!

[anniemcu]

Joanie & CTL get attacked sometimes for not being traditional enough--the age-old debate about pure forms of a musical genre vs. more broadly- appealing approaches (and more commercial) applies here.
But, putting aesthetics aside, I'll just point out that no person(s) on the planet, in my opinion, with the exception of The Chieftains, is more responsible for public interest in Irish music than Joanie Madden. Among other things, there'd be no C&F had I not heard Joanie play.

I like CTL. I like Fairport Convention and Clannad, too.

All this having been said, allow me to weigh in on the original post:

I recorded the entire Imus show, then transferred it to another tape, keeping only the parts that had to do with CTL. Yes, I left both Imus comments on the tape, but it makes what happened on the last song even funnier. Dale, when you watch your recording again, please notice that the last song was one of those creepy old Elizabethan songs, and pay special attention to Heidi's and Joanie's facial expressions. When I played the tape back, with this song directly on the heels of Imus's second comment, and watched Heidi and Joanie, I nearly fell out laughing! I definitely think our Ladies got the last laugh in this situation.

So high-fives to the Ladies, and Joanie, if you're reading this, you can always count on my support. Love ya!

Slainte,
Jim

And as to the 'not traditional enough'... seems they are well populated with All-Ireland Champs in several catagories... but that doesn't count for much? LOL!

Well.. I am squarely on the 'I like 'em' bench... and Joanie is a great real life person. She may not walk on water, mind you, but then... neither does anyone else I'm personally acquainted with.

Thank goodness.

[Lambchop]

I was momentarily offended, but then realized you'd said "personally acquainted."

[anniemcu]

I was momentarily offended, but then realized you'd said "personally acquainted."

[FJohnSharp]

CTL was in town last night. I considered going and wearing a Dom Imus mask, but I didn't need an O'Riordan Bb jammed up my nose (on second thought, if I could have kept it...)

Actually I really wanted to go but couldn't. I'll see them in the summer though as they always come to the Irish fest. I happen to like them. I'm not big on labeling music (except Monkey Salsa Fission Jazz) and I just like the sound. I really miss Aiofe Clancy's vocals, though.

[Martin Milner]

So what bands formed in the last 30 or so years DO play exclusively in a "traditional" style?

Danu, Dervish, Beoga, Flook, Altan, Lunasa, Solas, The Bothy Band, The Chieftains, The Dubliners?

[Dale]

So what bands formed in the last 30 or so years DO play exclusively in a "traditional" style?

Danu, Dervish, Beoga, Flook, Altan, Lunasa, Solas, The Bothy Band, The Chieftains, The Dubliners?

There you go.

[Loren]

Can't beat "Feet of Flames" for hard core traditonal ITM.

Loren

[Wombat]

So what bands formed in the last 30 or so years DO play exclusively in a "traditional" style?

Danu, Dervish, Beoga, Flook, Altan, Lunasa, Solas, The Bothy Band, The Chieftains, The Dubliners?

I think the tradition has fissioned. OTOH, you have solo and duo musicians still playing with minimal or no backing and aspiring to sound like the pure drop musicians of the past or to be recognisable descendents of them. OTOH you have the bands, playing largely traditional tunes and songs with something resembling traditonal technique but forging styles of their own. Obviously, some depart from the pure drop more starkly than others. For my part, I tend to judge the bands by different standards. I enjoy both, but I rarely find musicians playing in the band style as expressive as the best pure drop musicians of the past.

I think it would be really helpful if we just admitted that players in these sstyles are best judged by somewhat different standards and stopped fighting over ownership of the tradition. My guess is that the existence of the band style leads many more people to pure drop performers than would otherwise get exposure to them and also feeds players into that tradition who might have ignored traditional music entirely. Just as pure drop musicians of the past could also play in ceilidh bands, so too can some of the band members hold their own in a more traditional setting. I think that the band style will be the more popular for the foreseeable future. That style has strengths but it also has limitations and I think we should just be honest about that.

[dubhlinn]

The "problem" I have with CTL is that even though the band is made up of very fine musicians, any one of whom I would admire as a soloist, it does not gel into a cohesive unit.
It is one of lifes little mysteries how a group of mediocre musicians can come together to make a righteous sound in which the sum is far greater than the parts,or on the other hand, how a group of very talented musicians can come together and fail to light that spark that separates the great bands from the ordinary ones.
CTL would make a great session but as a Band, well to my ears anyway, it just doesn't come together.

This is just my own opinion of course, and it is not intended to start a flame war in any shape or form.

Slan,
D.

[ashboomstick]

I can see your point. "The Girls Won't Leave the Boys Alone" album was great, one of mine and the wife's favorites...but the others that I have (3 or 4, I can't remember) get very little rotation in the CD player. They just don't seem to have what the French call " a certain I don't know what." The technical playing is very good, but they just don't "click" with me.

[anniemcu]

I can see your point. "The Girls Won't Leave the Boys Alone" album was great, one of mine and the wife's favorites...but the others that I have (3 or 4, I can't remember) get very little rotation in the CD player. They just don't seem to have what the French call " a certain I don't know what." The technical playing is very good, but they just don't "click" with me.

I find this true with just about any group in any genre.

[Lambchop]

Can't beat "Feet of Flames" for hard core traditonal ITM.

Loren