Flat Sweet

[larrywcusick]

Have a 20 year old two piece Ralph Sweet D rosewood flute that I started playing in January. It is frustrating and exhilarating at the same time. But it plays a little flat pushed all the way in. Is it just me (embouchure), or is it possible to sharpen with some thingy.

This board has been an inspiration. Thanks!

[peeplj]

You might check the head cork position...it should be the distance of the inner diameter of the headjoint back from the center of the embouchure hole.

Also, it might be revealing to have someone else try the flute and note rather it plays flat for them as well.

--James

[Doug_Tipple]

Ask Ralph for some of that Sweet Sharp Oil, or is it, Sharp Sweet Oil? I never can remember. If that doesn't work, and the cork is in the correct postion and another person has verified the flat pitch, I would send it back to Ralph for an adjustment

[jim stone]

These flutes are (now, anyhow) made to play in tune
with the tenon entirely closed. That means you can't
tune them sharper--at least not by pushing in
the tenon.

They sometimes play flat if they're cold. So be sure
the flute is warm. You can raise the pitch by
rolling out the headjoint a bit.

James's suggestion about the cork comes next,
these other schemes failing

Last but not least, contact Ralph by e mail or call him.

[Loren]

You might check the head cork position...it should be the distance of the inner diameter of the headjoint back from the center of the embouchure hole.

--James

This is only a general rule of thumb, and not necessarily the case for all woodenflutes. Flutes optimised for more or less than 2 octaves, and flutes that rely on extensice crossfingerings, will often have a different stopper position. I hope you are listening Charlie.......

Loren

[peeplj]

You might check the head cork position...it should be the distance of the inner diameter of the headjoint back from the center of the embouchure hole.

--James

This is only a general rule of thumb, and not necessarily the case for all woodenflutes. Flutes optimised for more or less than 2 octaves, and flutes that rely on extensice crossfingerings, will often have a different stopper position. I hope you are listening Charlie.......

Loren

True, and good point.

Even on flutes of the same make, the position can vary.

When I was a student of Dr. Steinquest, he recommended using a tuner--not viewing the tuner yourself, but having a friend view it for you--and adjusting the tuning cork until the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd octave D's were as close to each other as you could get them.

On wood flutes I usually just try to stick to the maker's recommendation as to where the cork should be placed; I'm assuming, though, that you could fine-tune it in exactly the same way as with a Boehm-system flute, trying to get the three D's as closely in tune as possible.

--James

[Loren]

For a variety of reasons, it's better to pick a note other than D, perhaps G or A, depending on the wooden flute, if you're gonna go that route.

Loren

[Unseen122]

Very true Loren. Talk to Ralph is the best answer, or maybe even Tyghress on this board can help, she works for the Sweets. Although, she has only been working there for a couple of months.

[chas]

This is only a general rule of thumb, and not necessarily the case for all woodenflutes. Flutes optimised for more or less than 2 octaves, and flutes that rely on extensice crossfingerings, will often have a different stopper position. I hope you are listening Charlie.......

I'd love to have a screwcap cork adjuster for the traverso. Fortunately I play the vH almost exclusively at A415, so don't have to adjust the cork often. Very nice touch, the dowel with the marks for 415 and 440. I was a little surprised that the lower tuning had the closer cork position. One of these days I'll stop trying to reason out why and just ask.

Since this is the second thread about tuning, I'll also chime in with my experience. I play flat. Always have. My Olwell Rudall has about 3-4 mm of the slide showing when I'm in tune. I can't get my Sweet in tune, nor my slideless Olwell, nor either of my (slideless) traversos. I'm always a few cents flat. Since it's a pattern, I assume it's me, and it's only a few cents, so it's no biggie for me. Neither of my teachers thinks it's a pathological problem, and they both say my tone is good, so I don't sweat it. (I still want to reduce my air consumption, so it may be that my embouchure will change enough that I do start blowing sharper.)

I think it was mentioned in this thread or the other, but if you can, have someone else play your flute and see whether it's in tune.

[Jumbuk]

Have a 20 year old two piece Ralph Sweet D rosewood flute that I started playing in January. It is frustrating and exhilarating at the same time. But it plays a little flat pushed all the way in. Is it just me (embouchure), or is it possible to sharpen with some thingy.

This board has been an inspiration. Thanks!

Hi Larry. I have a Sweet D in purpleheart that I have been playing since May last year. Yes, it is frustrating at first, but it gets better all the time.

Forgive me if I am assuming too much - is this your first time playing flute? If you have been playing for only one month, you are doing well to get a consistent tone. Before mucking around with the cork etc, I would start from the basis that it is probably part of the process of developing your embouchure.

Until fairly recently, I played way too sharp. I couldn't get the flute flat enough even with the tenon pulled all the way out. I noticed this the first time I tried to play with other people. I also had great difficulty getting the low notes strongly enough.

The solution: I was blowing across the embouchure hole rather than down into it. I now cover part of the hole with my lower lip and blow more down into the hole than across. It's a subtle difference - if you are not careful, you can go overboard. Also, it changes as you go up the octave - I think I blow across the hole more as the notes get higher. You need to experiment to get it right.

It's worth working with this a bit. It is a good technique to be able to vary your pitch up or down at will. I am also simultaneously learning shakuhachi (Japanese end-blown flute), and this pitch-shifting technique is standard practice (meri/kari) to get notes outside the pentatonic scale.

Interesting note: I saw Terry McGee playing at the Celtic Festival in Portarlington (Victoria, Australia) last year. He was playing with a harpist, and I noticed he was rolling the flute away or towards his lips as a way of bending pitch in various parts of a tune - kind of like sliding by moving fingers to partially cover a tone hole. I liked the technique, and I am trying to get it to work in my own tunes.

Of course, I could be wrong - you may already have all the technique you need, so you may need to look at your instrument as described by the other posts.

[Tyghress]

Tyghress doesn't know diddly about cork positions, though...I'll point the thread out to Ralph or Walt ASAP. . .

Sincerely,
Tyg

[Loren]

I didn't realize you were working at Sweetheart, cool!

Loren

[waltsweet]

Larry,

I'm sure we can help you with the tuning of the flute.
All the responses posted are relevant, but the adjustments need to be coordinated: simply moving the cork can help certain aspects while hurting others. Could you send it back to us? I'd really like to see for myself what's going on with this flute (no charge).

Walt Sweet

[waltsweet]

We have been making the Resonance Model, with improvements to the scale over our previous models. It's designed to play A=440 when the slide is pushed up against the o-rings; removing them will let the flute play a little sharp if necessary.

Walt Sweet

[Loren]

Larry,

All the responses posted are relevant, but the adjustments need to be coordinated: simply moving the cork can help certain aspects while hurting others.

Walt Sweet

This sounds oddly familiar........

Loren