Need advice on purchasing student (Boehm) flute ...

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:04 pm

Greetings, fluters. I'm usually over at the whistle forum and the Poststructural Pub, but I figured I should drop in and ask you kind folks for a little advice.

Irina, 14, has been playing flute in school for three years now and loves it.

She has been playing a Selmer student flute provided by the school, but now her music teacher says it's time for her to purchase her own flute. He's sent her home with an Armstrong 104 from a local music store that's asking $175.

I've done some Googling around and checking eBay auctions, and I see that there are other student flutes that may be more highly regarded. In particular, I see a lot of Gemeinhardt 2SP flutes, and it looks like I could pick out one that should be in good condition for around the same amount of money if I'm careful.

What do you recommend? I haven't spent a lot of time on this, and I wonder if there are other flutes and other ways of researching this that I should investigate.

Thanks in advance for your kind help.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Danner · Post by **Danner** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:04 pm

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert.
I wouldn't go with a used Gemeinhardt 2SP. Those are some of the lowest quality student flutes that are generally abused horribly by 5th graders. A new one would probably be okay. My best advice, have a professional flutist check it over whatever you end up buying before the deal is final. Some flutes can just be bad, and you'll want to be able to return it if it is. A good place to check out is FluteWorld. You can probably call or e-mail them and they'll be able to help you find what you want. They have really great service if you decide to buy from them.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:26 pm

Danner wrote:Disclaimer: I'm not an expert.
I wouldn't go with a used Gemeinhardt 2SP. Those are some of the lowest quality student flutes that are generally abused horribly by 5th graders. A new one would probably be okay. My best advice, have a professional flutist check it over whatever you end up buying before the deal is final. Some flutes can just be bad, and you'll want to be able to return it if it is. A good place to check out is FluteWorld. You can probably call or e-mail them and they'll be able to help you find what you want. They have really great service if you decide to buy from them.

Total agreement.
Disclaimer: semi-retired band teacher with more opinions than sense.

I'd add that Yamahas are quite consistant, and the newer Jupiters are very good. Old Jupiters are a real gamble. Some have had success with off-brands, but I'd only try them for my own amusement.

Having a good player along to try flutes is a real bonus: I got some good advice from a friend, and picked up an old Boosey 3-20 for cheap. I wouldn't normally touch an old Boosey with someone else's ten foot pole, but I trusted the expert and now play the Boosey more than my Yamaha.

The Gemeinhardt step-up models are OK, and easy for technicians to repair and adjust. I seem to remember that some of the older ones rely on the "bend-and-pray" adjustment method, but I'm dating myself.

14 years old? Played for 3 years? From what I've seen, kids like this who get new step-up instruments take wonderful care of them and rarely kick them out of adjustment. I'd be inclided to go for new and shiny, or newly refurbished from an excellent repair shop.

kumquattery · Post by **kumquattery** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:48 pm

Hi all!

Disclaimer: played in school bands, orchestras, made it to regional orchestras, yet never became a *musician* (I'm trying to make up for it now in my old age...

)

To reply, I would say unequivocally go for a good student Yamaha. Mine needed absolutely no maintenance, has a lovely sound, permits a greater variety of expression, has a quicker response could be played louder (helpful in marching band and in orchestras where the woodwind: string ratio is 1:10,000), than the oft advertised (in school band folders and magazines, anyway) Bundys, Gemeinhardts, Armstrongs, Selmers, etc.

Many of the above flutes IMHO suffer from a kind of "stuffy" sound--rather dull, and not so clear in tone, responsive or crisp as the Yamaha.

I used my trusty Yamaha until my last year or two in high school (and played it at paid gigs and stuff), when I switched to my fancy-schmancy open holed flute. The Yamaha is still my go-to instrument if I'm playing outside and there's a chance of rain, and it plays nearly as well as my fancy flute.

Note that Yamahas tend to play sharp when headjoint is pushed all the way in. Not a big deal, as everyone plays a bit pulled out anyway. Also the advice about trying out several flutes by the same manufacturer is good--I tried about 3-4 Yamaha student flutes before settling on the one I have now.

Anyhoo, my biased few cents!

Good luck with selecting a flute! Oh how exciting!

kumquattery

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:31 pm

Jerry, I wrote this review, which is now of page 5:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=36137

I have owned two nice Yamaha flutes in the past, and I can second the opinion that they are very nice flutes. However, they are expensive. I am impressed with the Chinese Venus flute. It is beautiful, plays easy, and has a good tone. It is a terrific value. Money back guarantee, as well.

mutepointe · Post by **mutepointe** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:00 pm

since we're talking about these kind of flutes, could you all please help me too? i was given a band flute to learn how to play. lucky me. i kept it out all the time so that i could easily pick it up and play. you may have guessed that i let it tarnish. bad tarnish. is there a quick and easy way to get it shiny again? is there a way (like a cloth bag) to store the flute to avoid tarnish but to also have it in one piece so that i don't have to bother putting it together and taking it apart?

at some point in the not too distant future, the person who gave me the flute is going to be back in town. it's gotta be shiny. thanks.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:26 am

Curious too as to the step up from student flute.
The ones i've played weren't very satisfying.

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:28 am

Jupiter, Yamaha, Pearl, and Trevor James are all worth looking at. If you can, go to a (good) flute shop and try them out (bring a teacher/experienced player if possible). Or get several on trial from Flute World--good outfit...I think their website is www.fluteworld.com . When you find the right one, buy that one, not another of the same make and model. They're all different (even within the same make and model). If possible, get a flute with a hand-cut embouchure. Material matters much less. Unless you're looking at pro flutes, gold this or that is irrelevant. It's just cosmetic. Also, don't get hung up on all silver--build quality and embouchure cut trump material any day. I've seen fabulous plated instruments and crummy sterling ones.
Jim, I'd say the next real step up from the $200-$1000 student flutes will cost $2000-$3000 (and then pro flutes start at around $5000). Altus makes some really lovely instruments, especially if dig the old French sound. (When I was shopping for a step-up instrument some years ago, of the ones in my price range I tried, I found the Altus the least immediately gratifying, but the most colorful and flexible after spending some time with it...that's what I bought and stuck with until switching to simple system flute. The scale was terrific, too, quite easy to play all 3 plus octaves in tune. I really liked the Altus in that it didn't have obvious in-your-face loudness and power, but it had excellent projection and was very colorful and flexible. A lot of headjoints are cut to give the player the illusion of power up close, but the sound doesn't project well.) I've also played good flutes by Muramatsu, Miyazawa, Sankyo, Powell...they're all different. While some of the Boston makers are now making step-up flutes, in addition to their traditional handmade lines, I think some of the Japanese firms offer some top-notch instruments in that range.
Poke around www.larrykrantz.com --there's a wealth of info.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:12 am

Doug_Tipple wrote:Jerry, I wrote this review, which is now of page 5:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=36137

I have owned two nice Yamaha flutes in the past, and I can second the opinion that they are very nice flutes. However, they are expensive. I am impressed with the Chinese Venus flute. It is beautiful, plays easy, and has a good tone. It is a terrific value. Money back guarantee, as well.

Jerry, I am extremely happy that the Venus worked out for you. You got a good one.

That said, I've seen many, many off-brand wind instruments come into my band room; with the exception of one pocket-trumpet that was quite a lot of fun to play, they were all various forms of garbage. One student spent her own babysitting money, every cent she had, on a clarinet that could not be played in tune. I loaned her an old but reliable Yamaha of mine, and the loan became permanent. The flutes I've seen have had malformed tenons, extremely brittle keys, sloppy rods, and one had its embouchure plate in the wrong spot. My favourite repair shop will rarely touch them at any price.

Just as we have "Beware Of..." stickies on our board, I'm sure similar warnings are on the silver-flute sites.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:13 am

Copied from the Pub:

When I started playing boehm flute I was recomended to buy Yamaha by my teacher, as they are very consistent, good quality, good resale value and overall a great bang for the buck.
I did, and I never regretted it. I tried a few other brands in the same price range later and found that the Yamaha was superior. At least for me.
Didn't try Armstrong, but I did try Pearl, Trevor James and I think I tried a Germinhart at one point as well. I wasn't too impressed with any of them.
Europe and US models may vary a bit, but not too much, I don't think.

WilliamC · Post by **WilliamC** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:54 pm

This is an interesting article about the comparison of 7 flutes made of different materials: silver plated, solid silver, 9K gold, 14K gold, 24K gold, platinum plated, and solid platinum.
http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/english/ ... tner_e.htm
The conclusion was that while there was significant difference between the different players, there was no significant difference between the different flutes when played by the same person.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:43 pm

Tintin wrote:Jupiter, Yamaha, Pearl, and Trevor James are all worth looking at. If you can, go to a (good) flute shop and try them out (bring a teacher/experienced player if possible). Or get several on trial from Flute World--good outfit...I think their website is www.fluteworld.com . When you find the right one, buy that one, not another of the same make and model. They're all different (even within the same make and model). If possible, get a flute with a hand-cut embouchure. Material matters much less. Unless you're looking at pro flutes, gold this or that is irrelevant. It's just cosmetic. Also, don't get hung up on all silver--build quality and embouchure cut trump material any day. I've seen fabulous plated instruments and crummy sterling ones.
Jim, I'd say the next real step up from the $200-$1000 student flutes will cost $2000-$3000 (and then pro flutes start at around $5000). Altus makes some really lovely instruments, especially if dig the old French sound. (When I was shopping for a step-up instrument some years ago, of the ones in my price range I tried, I found the Altus the least immediately gratifying, but the most colorful and flexible after spending some time with it...that's what I bought and stuck with until switching to simple system flute. The scale was terrific, too, quite easy to play all 3 plus octaves in tune. I really liked the Altus in that it didn't have obvious in-your-face loudness and power, but it had excellent projection and was very colorful and flexible. A lot of headjoints are cut to give the player the illusion of power up close, but the sound doesn't project well.) I've also played good flutes by Muramatsu, Miyazawa, Sankyo, Powell...they're all different. While some of the Boston makers are now making step-up flutes, in addition to their traditional handmade lines, I think some of the Japanese firms offer some top-notch instruments in that range.
Poke around www.larrykrantz.com --there's a wealth of info.

Thanks, very interesting. I thought student flutes were maybe
175. These are starter flutes, I thought. Not much in 'em.
I thought for maybe five or six hundred one could get
something a step up, maybe less used. Also that for
about 1500 one could get something quite good, but
not yet professional. Is this right? I mean one would
suppose that there would be a substantial difference
in performance tween 200 and 1000.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:13 pm

Jim, I think that Tintin is talking about buying from a music store and is assuming that the flute has had a trip to their repair person fir a tuneup.

You can find most anything on eBay. It would be wise to add $200-$300 to the perceived price as that should cover an overhaul/adjustment to bring it up to snuff.

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:35 pm

jim stone wrote:Thanks, very interesting. I thought student flutes were maybe 175. These are starter flutes, I thought. Not much in 'em.
I thought for maybe five or six hundred one could get
something a step up, maybe less used. Also that for
about 1500 one could get something quite good, but
not yet professional. Is this right? I mean one would
suppose that there would be a substantial difference
in performance tween 200 and 1000.

I'd say the step-up/intermediate flutes begin at $1000 and range upwards to $5000. (My quess is that some of you legit Irish flute players may not have played a really fine Boehm-style flute - there's a huge difference between a $500 flute and a $10,000 flute).

Dana

Tom O'Farrell · Post by **Tom O'Farrell** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:29 pm

Jerry;
I play a Yamaha 265S2 as a back-up to my main flute and in practice to save wear and tear on the expensive flute.
After having several other makes of student models I have found this to be best flute value for money. You can hear one on my web page, just click on www.tomofarrell.ca it will open up automatically and then just listen.
I suggest Yamaha 265S2 (series 2 - open hole- C foot- offset G, and buy plastic plugs for her first few weeks) and definately a silver plated flute not nickel plated (nickel plating wears out quickly).
You can get one on e-bay for $250 to $350 used. Many available normally. Get the very newest, about 2-3 years old or less, newer the better, and pay about $350 or slightly more willingly as older metal flutes are probably worn out which is why they are on e-bay. Re-sale is excellent you will probably get all your money back later on.