Some IT nonsense!

[Les Cruttenden]

Love Irish Trad but as a novice I have a lot to learn...on my whistles and a piano accordion! However, since I got involved I have come across some bits that irritate me and I thought it best to get it out of my system.

The constant use of the word 'crack' or craic'....as though it somehow shows the user is on the ball as a genuine I T player.....according to Obriens Pocket History...a word of dubious origin....worse than that , it seems the expression has been hijacked from the English....

the idea that you need to be bloodline Irish to play IT...nonsense......music is a cultural thing.....raise someone from any nationality in a culture where IT is part of that culture and they will be 'players'......at worst...an example...an English I T group was leaving stage, to be followed by a well known Irish group...one of the latter threw a tirade of Gaelic at the other group and said..'if you can't understand that , you can't play IT'....utter rubbish....true story and well documented.

Then there are the so called 'purists' ( yes there are genuine purists , I know) but those who argue about button verses piano accordion....good lord...IT was well established before either came into being....those who play £200 plus whistles ......go back in history and see the simple instruments ...played by the poorer sections of Ireland at the time....no problem with the development of the music...evelution....Okay ...but lets not get too carried away .......greek stringed instruments and guitars etc had no place in IT......as long as we retain and maintain the central core of the music..........and that brings me to my pet hate......

The idea that IT...especially reels...has to be played at absurd speeds.....more I suspect to impress the listener than to maintain the tradition.....such speed playing is actually misinterpreting and misunderstanding the tradition......for goodness sake....I T has its roots in dance......communities coming together in homes and halls to dance to pokas,jigs, reels etc......and it is seldom that these ultra fast players retain the nuances of the music...more simply they mess up the tradition....there are signs of a move by some more discerning players to slower playing......fast might be clever but it does not = good...and it is NOT TRAD.......so if you are in this catagory...don't kid yourself that you are a purist...or even a traditionalist.

Les.

[fearfaoin]

I largely agree with you there, Les! But, I'm confused by this paragraph:

The constant use of the word 'crack' or craic'....as though it somehow shows the user is on the ball as a genuine I T player.....according to Obriens Pocket History...a word of dubious origin....worse than that , it seems the expression has been hijacked from the English....

Could you expound on that? What English word was it lifted from? I always thought this was a rather unique Gaelic word, like ceilidh,
since it usually takes more than one English word to translate...

[ErikT]

I'm not sure that all of your generalizations are valid. Like the word "craic". I agree that it is overused to the point of sounding silly, but I have heard it used pretty widely in my Ireland travels... and often by people who have a very direct connection to "the tradition". To me it's a lot like when a Northern States American visits a Southern State. We have a tendency to begin using Southern idioms and even pick up the Southern accent. It's natural to want to fit in and even fun at times, so I wouldn't let it bother you.

Also, regarding your pet hate, be careful. Speed is not the killer and does not necessarily indicate what you say it does. Many of the sessions that I've sat in on in Ireland have been blazing. Are you willing to tell them that they're not part of the tradition? Or traditionalists? There are good fast players and poor fast players. Good slow players and poor slow players. Rather than generalizations here, I think that a case by case basis is more profitable.

Me, I'm better at playing slowly... but there are MANY MANY MANY (did I mention, MANY?) fast players that can blow the pants off of my abilities and are steeped in the nuances of "the tradition".

A couple of my thoughts anyway.

Erik

[colomon]

Could you expound on that? What English word was it lifted from?

There is a school of thought that craic is a "made-up" attempt to hijack (or at least justify using) the English word crack -- the book Last Night's Fun takes this position, at the very least. I've got no idea what the truth is, though!

[Les Cruttenden]

to clariffy....quote from Dai Woosnam , Issue 58 'The Living Tradition'.
'crack is an English word...used in scotland and Ireland...it is about as Gaelic as my left foot.But that did not stop the Irish Tourist Board stealing the word a few years back and adopting their preposterous pseudo-Gaelic spelling of 'craic'it is completely bogus and should be fought against'...his view, and I have seen support for this view elsewhere....so it seems the word, whichever way it is used is fairly recent and not really associated with IT. Les.

[Les Cruttenden]

Eric T....did not mean to suggest there are not good fast players....BUT...the point is...it was...in tradition...DANCE music and to maintain the tradition appropriate speeds should be used to keep it traditional......it is impossible to get away from this point....the reels, jigs, etc etc were for communities to dance to...just a thought or two...Les.

[ErikT]

Does it matter whether it's Gaelic? The flute is not; it was imported. The word has a pretty clear definition. Use it - or don't use it. Why let it bother you? My point was that it isn't just used by people trying to pretend that they're part of the tradition. I've heard it used by people who ARE part of the tradition. Apparently they liked the word - regardless of when it was "created" or by whom.

Erik

p.s. Myself, I don't use the word. I'd feel like Barabara Billingsly on Airplaine: http://larry.teamoverkill.com/jive/

[Cynth]

Les, I agree that pretentious people are annoying. Every field of endeavor or interest has them. You just have to try to stay away from them and also it helps to start seeing it as funny. The people one can learn the most from seem to rarely be in this category, thank goodness.

[fearfaoin]

to clariffy....quote from Dai Woosnam , Issue 58 'The Living Tradition'.
'crack is an English word...used in scotland and Ireland...it is about as Gaelic as my left foot.But that did not stop the Irish Tourist Board stealing the word a few years back and adopting their preposterous pseudo-Gaelic spelling of 'craic'it is completely bogus and should be fought against'...his view, and I have seen support for this view elsewhere....so it seems the word, whichever way it is used is fairly recent and not really associated with IT. Les.

But, what did the English word "crack" mean? Was it used in the UK to
mean "Having a good time with friends"? If so, I'm not aware of that
definition, or any Etymology that would even hint at that meaning.
In the US, the noun "crack" only means "rock cocaine", or "a fissure,
esp. between a person's cheeks".

I don't doubt that it may have been lifted, but I see why it's not
common knowledge: no one knows why Britons would be using
the word "crack" in that context.

I also find the term "pseudo-Gaelic spelling" laughable. There are so
many exceptions in Gaelic spelling, that I wouldn't have any problem
believing "craic" was a perfectly valid way to spell that word...

[Cynth]

I have this in a book too and it says the word "crack" in English meant the same thing---having a good time with friends. I got the idea it was some sort of slang and is used in England by some people now. I don't know where the book got the information though. Probably another book on Irish music.

It can get a little annoying when pretentious people use the word, but I didn't know there was a controversy about its origins (the Irish Tourist Board!) and I thought it was commonly used in Ireland. Les, I hope you haven't started WWIII here.

[Cynth]

A pretty brief look at British slang sites leads me to think the word "crack" must not be in very common use because it is not mentioned. In fact, two sites had something like this:

"crack n. Okay, this is actually spelled "craic" but pronounced "crack". It's a Gaelic (Irish) word describing fun and frolics to be had with other people - the craic might be what makes a particular pub fun, or a wedding bearable."

so it looks like it is now getting borrowed back or something. I think I'll have to say I no longer know what to think about the origins of this word.

[BrassBlower]

p.s. Myself, I don't use the word. I'd feel like Barabara Billingsly on Airplaine: http://larry.teamoverkill.com/jive/

Since we're on Barbara Billingsley and pseudo-Gaelic pretense:

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/tmp/Tune077709.pdf

[djm]

I would guess that if this is a term used by the lower orders, then it may well have never been recorded early enough for anyone now to be certain of its origins. I have come across other Irish Gaelic expressions that passed in English, like "simply smashing" comes from "is maisin", i.e. is wonderful.

djm

[fearfaoin]

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/tmp/Tune077709.pdf

Dead link. You have to post the whole .html link, since JC's TuneFinder
only creates the .pdf (or .gif, or .whatever) files when you request
them, and they don't last long.

I have come across other Irish Gaelic expressions that passed in English, like "simply smashing" comes from "is maisin", i.e. is wonderful.

That is awesome. Thank you. I love this sort of word origin geeky stuff.

[SteveShaw]

If you want pretentious, how about "seisiun" instead of session! That makes me laugh every time I see it.

You didn't happen to read this before you posted, did you, Les?

Steve