2nd octave

earthmom · Post by **earthmom** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:35 pm

Help me please! What's the secret of the second octave? Sometimes I can do it and sometimes I can't. Even when I can get there, I'm not sure how it happened. And of course, it's almost an impossibility on my favorite whistle. I keep thinking that if I understood it I could do it consistently.

Thanks.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:41 pm

Earthmom, you just blow harder. It's all about breath control. I remember my first lesson (I only took four of them, then began learning here), I watched in astonishment as my teacher switched octaves. I couldn't do it, but now I do it without thinking. Blow softly, lower octave...blow harder, higher octave. Also, it depends on the whistle's personality. If the particular whistle requires little breath (like an O'Briain Feadog), you have to blow very softly to get a lower octave D. You may find out that you've been getting the high octave without wanting it. If so, you have to learn to blow softly on that particular whistle. What brand is your whistle?

earthmom · Post by **earthmom** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:47 pm

On 2002-07-18 15:41, blackhawk wrote:
What brand is your whistle?

I have a Clarke original (painted) that's my favorite as far as tone but I can't get to the second octave to save my soul.

Clarke original (unpainted) I can get the second octave part of the time.

Clarke Sweetone - I can get the second octave almost all the time but the tone is very pinched all the time so this isn't my first choice

I got an Oak today and can even find the third octave but can't get a pure tone out of the low D at all. That whistle is already in the drawer.

janice · Post by **janice** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:00 pm

Try this-
1.place your hand 2 inches from your lips
2.blow fast cold hard air in a small stream into your palm-this is the kind of airstream you will use to get your second octave to speak properlay and consistently.
3.Now blow the opposite kind of airstream into your palm-slow warm soft air in a large stream,this is what will produce the tone in your lower octave, and this is probably what you are doing already and why your upper octave is not speaking.
4.Last step-try both types of air on your whistle on a note in the middle of the whistle(g,f).Et Voila!!!!!!!

I'll also suggest something that a lot of Irish players don't do, but works(particularly if you are having trouble focussing the airstraem).Put your upper teeth on the fipple instead of your upper lip.Curl your bottom lip over your bottom teeth and blow.....

Your top teeth should only be about 1/4 inch from the top of the fipple.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:05 pm

On 2002-07-18 15:47, earthmom wrote:
On 2002-07-18 15:41, blackhawk wrote:
What brand is your whistle?

I have a Clarke original (painted) that's my favorite as far as tone but I can't get to the second octave to save my soul.

Clarke original (unpainted) I can get the second octave part of the time.
****Earthmom, I bought a Clarke original a few months ago in Ireland. I couldn't get any decent tone on it at all, no matter what. Now, I just got a Clarke (the same whistle you're talking about) in the mail, tweaked by Thom Larson of the Whistle Shop, and it has very good tone throughout both octaves. It does, however, take a lot of breath. But that's ok, you just have to know what to expect.

Clarke Sweetone - I can get the second octave almost all the time but the tone is very pinched all the time so this isn't my first choice
***By "pinched" do you mean there's a lot of chiff? I love my Sweetones, have 3 of them all in D, and one C. They do have a good second octave, but the C natural is iffy on the D's.

I got an Oak today and can even find the third octave but can't get a pure tone out of the low D at all. That whistle is already in the drawer.
****In today's shipment I also got several Generation D's and a whole set of Generations (all keys), a Clare, and a Doolin. I also have a Walton, an Oak, and an off the shelf Feadog. I'm not happy with the lower octave D on ANY of them. I'll be doing a lot of tweaking over the next few weeks. If you want a guaranteed sweet sounding whistle through two octaves, your only safe bet (I can already hear the protests and arguments) is an O'Briain improved Feadog from Shanna Quay.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: blackhawk on 2002-07-18 23:56 ]</font>

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:14 pm

On 2002-07-18 15:47, earthmom wrote:

I got an Oak today and can even find the third octave but can't get a pure tone out of the low D at all. That whistle is already in the drawer.

The Oak has what's often described as a "buzz." It has lots of under- and overtones, which some people like and some don't. I found mine pretty much impossible to play without the sticky-tack tweak (see the main C&F website).

To get the second octave, try tonguing the note -- sort of say "TAH" when you sound the note; the abrupt attack usually makes it easier to get into the second octave.

Charlie

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:35 pm

If I may make a recommendation, I've found the Clare one-piece D whistle to be an excellent cheap whistle (very nice tone) especially with the beeswax-in-the-cavity-under-the-airway tweak (see Dale's piece on tweaking cheap whistles). Order them online if you have to.

Some of the old-fashioned, rolled-tin whistles (like Clarke) will sometimes have their blades inadvertently distorted. You can try to fix this, but buying a new whistle may be the best solution in the long run.

curioso · Post by **curioso** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:48 pm

I came to the whistle after playing clarinet for many years, and when I started I was blowing WAY too hard. I had to let up to get the first octave. It's probably not YOUR problem, but just in case, (assuming you're a beginner), make sure your're really starting with the first octave and not overblowing into the 2nd. Put the whistle to your lips and puff very gently, getting slowly stronger till you get the sound to come out. That's your starting octave.

Timotheus7 · Post by **Timotheus7** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:42 pm

Putting your teeth on your whistle? I realize
that technically it isn't biting, but that could lead to it. Let us not forget Wayne the giant whistling rodent on the front page...
I used to have trouble hitting the second octave too...
Try this (this is L.E. McCullough's method...I read it in his book, "The Complete Irish Tinwhistle Tutor"):
Besides blowing harder, you should also tighten your lips around the mouthpiece a little bit until you hit the second octave. This works just fine on my feadóg D, but I'm not sure if it will help you with a clarke.

janice · Post by **janice** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 7:08 pm

Yes Timothy-you can put your teeth on the whistle without biting and turning into a giant rat.
I started playing whistle back in the dark ages(after having been a sax/clarinet major in university)and assumed that whistle, like every other woodwind instrument on the face of the planet that goes in your mouth(double reeds excluded)was played with one's top teeth on the mouthpiece(fipple).I quit playing with my teeth on the fipple after attending a clinic taught by Jerry O'Sullivan,who, of course, informed me that that was not the "right"way to do it.So I changed my whistle embochure....I did'nt have as much control over the air stream as before, but, if that was the way Irish players did it, then I was gonna play that way too. And yes I had a copy of Larry McCullogh's book(in 1987) and I knew that he started out as a sax/clarinet player also.

Thank goodness I met Loretto Reid soon after-she's a whistle player from Sligo and VERY VERY talented. And guess what-she uses her top teeth on the fipple, even has bite marks(gasp!!!!)on her old beat up Generation whistle fipple.....so I went back to playing with my top teeth on the fipple. And that way of playing works MUCH better on my conically bored Copeland than top lip on the fipple.

I've found that this also works very well with beginner whistle students, especially adults who have no experience playing any kind of wind instrument.

ThorntonRose · Post by **ThorntonRose** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:58 pm

Earthmom, I hate to suggest this now that you have bought three whistles, but you should get one more whistle. I suggest Waltons brass D or Waltons little black. A lot or people talk about how great the Clarke is. Yes, the Clarke Sweetone is easy to play because the holes are small and it requires very little air pressure, but the sound is thin. To me, Waltons is much better in terms of tone, consistency, and playability. (Oh, by the way, I didn't like my Oak D either. I sold it.)

earthmom · Post by **earthmom** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 8:34 am

On 2002-07-19 20:58, ThorntonRose wrote:
Earthmom, I hate to suggest this now that you have bought three whistles, but you should get one more whistle.

Always up for that.

(Oh, by the way, I didn't like my Oak D either. I sold it.)

Suppose it's like the legend of the fruitcake. There's only one and it just gets passed around for years and years?

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:51 pm

Just a personal opinion, but I really don't think you need another whistle - just more practice in blowing harder for the second octave. Actually, none of those mentioned comes even close to an Overton in how hard you have to blow for the highest notes.

One thing that helped me was to find a few tunes that are mostly played in the upper octave (Wild Mountan Thyme comes immediately to mind).

To be honest, though, I still have a bit of a problem making a smooth transition when the note jumps a full octave, as from a base D to a second octave D - sometimes the note sounds abrupt, as if I'd tounged it when i didn't.