Tieing Microphones on whistles

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:25 pm

It's difficult playing a whistle next to a mic stand. I move around too much. So recently I was recording something and came up with a new idea. I was using a small mic to recording and had some "Hand Drum" tape, which I made from Vetrap tape that is used to wrap horses legs.

I cut the tape down into 1/2" wide pieces and sell them to hand drum players to protect their knuckles.

Since the tape has rubber in it, it sticks to itself and the microphone can be temporarily taped to the whistle near the window nice and firm with no movement noise induced as the tape can be put under it as well to create a cusion.

For those not familiar with Vetrap Tape: http://wingodirect.com/product%20-%203M ... 20pack.htm

http://www.drneils.com.au/indexPrev.php ... &artId=352

I most think Tractor Supply Stores in the US have it.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:44 pm

Smart. I have grown custom to stand still while I have to play something. Our band has been provided with very nice mics (Shure Beta 58 ) per sponsorship from a society in town here. They work great for both song, whistle and flute and I haven't found anything that quite matches the sound quality. I'm still looking for headsets and the like but I have more or less given up the search (figured that if I wanted to match the sound quality it'd be ridiculously expensive).

clark · Post by **clark** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:52 am

Boy I've been around the block a few times on this one. Playing stationary in front of a mic really gives me a stiff neck and shoulders after a long gig (although I play both, I play more flute than whistle during a gig).

Anyway, I went to a really good head mic by Shure that made it so I could move around and solved the problem of switching between flutes and whistles of different keys - which I do a lot. The problem was that the mic was very fussy about the distance it needed to be from the sound source. Just a little slippage and it would make a major difference in the sound amplitude and quality. I was never really happy with the quality. So I reluctantly went back to the mic stand. Shure Beta 57 has a nice sound with flutes and whistles.

Just a few weeks ago, however, I discovered the Shure WL183. This is a high quality lavalier mic that made my flutes and whistle sound VERY natural ...wonderful mic! It is an omnidirectional mic which is usually a no no for a stage with monitors, but because the mic is so close to the sound source it isn't a problem. The reason an omnidirectional mic is best is because they are not very sensitive to handling and breath noise, both of which can be a problem with flutes and whistles.

So then we come to the problem of attaching the mic to various instruments. I have to switch often in the course of a gig and a couple of times in the middle of a tune set. No time to tape and untape ...even velcro is impractical - and loud with a live mic. What I did was take apart an old "vibrational tuning clamp". You know the kind that is at the end of a cable that plugs into a tuner and senses the vibrations of the instrument. The kind I canibalized was spring loaded and curved to fit flutes/whistles of any size. I attached the mic to this and now I can quickly and silently unclip one instrument and clip it on another. No fuss. No muss.

Clark

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:46 am

That's a good idea. With a little arthritis, I get fatigued too easily being in one position. I've been thinking that I could connect the bracket to the whistle using the rubber tape, I could make brackets for each whistle and switch them easily.

I wonder if a built-in microphone bracket on a whistle would be useful?

There is this one guy, Phillipe Bolton? Who makes a whistle is the microphone built into the head. I have never heard it played before.

Here is a link on that Shure WL183 that you mentioned: http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/wl18x.asp

I'll look it over.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:48 am

I've used lavalier mics, but I end up having to run them through dynamics-processors (compressors) to get acceptable sound in a loud-stage environment. This is a nice setup (with a WL183) when one has a UHF wireless system with gain and tone control right on your hip, but it's high on complexity and stuff-that-breaks-at-the-worst-moment.
Simple, robust dynamic mics like 58's (or my favourite Sennheiser) give the same control just with good mic-technique, but I can't boogie around the stage like a deranged loonie. Always a tradeoff.

If you can get the sound you want out of a lav mic, great. If you're already running a vocal channel (with reverb and compression) then running the whistle-mic through that can be good, dep-ending on your setup. Simple, however, is reeeealy good.

clark · Post by **clark** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:06 pm

Yes, you are right about most lavalier mics needing compression. This Shure, however, is quite a good mic and I don't have that problem. I do use it wireless and have some control at my hip. As for stuff going wrong on stage ...Shure is pretty reliable; but then it is the rare gig that something doesn't go wrong with some piece of equipment. Just in case I always have my Shure Beta 57 in my bag on stage.

Clark

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:14 pm

clark wrote:Yes, you are right about most lavalier mics needing compression. This Shure, however, is quite a good mic and I don't have that problem. I do use it wireless and have some control at my hip. As for stuff going wrong on stage ...Shure is pretty reliable; but then it is the rare gig that something doesn't go wrong with some piece of equipment. Just in case I always have my Shure Beta 57 in my bag on stage.

Clark

I wasn't referring to the mic (I've never had a Shure go down in a gig) but to the hodgpodge processor rack I use, and to cabling. My gear is of various vintage and quality, from home-made xlr cables to a bread-boarded reverb, to a 197? Lexicon studio compressor. I get my desired sound, but at the expense of reliability.

I'm glad your system fits with what you want to hear. I've been accused of being over-picky with my sound because I'm unsatisfied with my playing. This may be true, especially on whistles and flute.

tim-hart · Post by **tim-hart** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:02 pm

I've been around and back on this one too. I started with a standard 57 and then went to a headset. Loved the freedom of movement the headset allowed me but I sacrificed mic technique that I can in front of a traditional setup. I ended up, after significant whining, to moving to a Beta 57 on a mic stand. It keeps me more stationary but in the end the sound quality is superior.

Side note: one problem with the headset is that it always looked goofy in photos of gigs. Part of my face was always obscured in pictures and it looked odd to the audience.

th

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:49 pm

tim-hart wrote:Side note: one problem with the headset is that it always looked goofy in photos of gigs.
th

I don't need a mic for that.

Tony McGinley · Post by **Tony McGinley** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:10 pm

Hi Daniel - I have been experimenting
for a little while in getting acceptable
recording from whistles. My experience
is that a mike needs to pick up the sound
from the open tone holes and end of the bell
as well as from the window. I have also
found that attached mics are in danger of
picking up wind noise and handling sounds.

In recording at least there is another dis-
advantage inthat attached microphones
fail to pick up much ambient acoustic from
the room/hall giving the sound a flatter
profile and requiring some added DSP.

I'v found that by using two omni-directional
mikes and tweaking with the positioning, I
can get good sound and a fair bit of freedom
of movement most of the time.

Large diaphram condencer mics give me the
nicest results. These used to be very expensive
a few years ago, but reasonable quality ones
by Behringer and Samson are to be had cheaply
nowadays.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
You are always generous with help and advice.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:01 pm

Just picked up some vetrap (the end of a roll) from my vet. Useful stuff!

Does Red Green know about it?

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:16 pm

Seems like it might be easier to find a headset mic that you could tweak to position it over the whistle rather than finding a way to clamp it onto the whistle... that is if there are any headset mics good enough to work for a whistle.

clark · Post by **clark** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:32 pm

I've tried the best headset mics Shure has to offer and they were all spotty in their performance. I have toyed with the idea of trying to rig this lavalier mic (http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/wl18x.asp) to a headset, but it is too expensive a mic to ruin and I like it too much. Besides the headsets generally go over the ears and I use wireless in-ear monitoring and glasses and that is just too much stuff hanging off my head.

Clark[/url]

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:38 pm

Tony McGinley wrote:Hi Daniel - I have been experimenting
for a little while in getting acceptable
recording from whistles. My experience
is that a mike needs to pick up the sound
from the open tone holes and end of the bell
as well as from the window.

Interesting point, I've seen catalog listings of expensive flute mics that have two condensor elements that suspended over the toneholes, I guess to get a distributed sound.