On 2002-04-09 21:12, raindog1970 wrote:
I could argue that the whistle used in "The Inner Light" was an Eb and the whistle used in "Lessons" was a D until I was blue in the face and nobody would believe me.
Rather than continue the argument, I offer definitive proof that I know what I'm talking about.
Here's a video clip from <A HREF=http://webpages.charter.net/raindog1970 ... t.wmv>"The Inner Light"</A>.
Here's a video clip from <A HREF=http://webpages.charter.net/raindog1970 ... essons"</A>.
If anyone can play along in tune with the first clip using an Oak D (or any other D whistle) I'll eat my Generation Eb, which is what I have to use to play along.
The Inner Light is one of my favorite episodes and when Gary posted this I had nothing to rely on except my sometimes failing memory. But I just unearthed my long lost video of this (and a few other) Star Trek episodes. All of the whistle (actually recorder) music is in the key of D including Frere Jacques played early on. I submit that Gary's "definitive proof" is nothing more than a video file sped up slightly to make it a smaller file and more web friendly and thus putting it in Eb. I thought that I remembered pulling out a whistle when this episode first aired and finding it all to be in D and now this old video tape concurs.
I submit that Gary's "definitive proof" is nothing more than a video file sped up slightly to make it a smaller file and more web friendly and thus putting it in Eb.
Speeding the video up would have no significant effect on file size but you may very well be on to something here. Its possible that the Star Trek video may have been captured at the wrong framerate. The NTSC video standard is 29.97 frames per second (fps) but the closest framerate supported by a lot of digital video editing software and web video codecs is 30 fps. If a 29.97 fps video was captured at 30 fps that would result in an playback speed increase of about 0.03 fps (or 0.1%). It isn't much of an increase but perhaps its enough to raise the pitch of a D to an Eb? Maybe someone who is good at physics could figure this out ...
[Edited to fix a typo]
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garycrosby on 2002-07-11 23:46 ]</font>
Tell us something.: You just slip out the back, Jack Make a new plan, Stan You don't need to be coy, Roy Just get yourself free Hop on the bus, Gus You don't need to discuss much Just drop off the key, Lee And get yourself free
Tell us something.: A long time chatty Chiffer but have been absent for almost two decades. Returned in 2022 and still recognize some names! I also play anglo concertina now.
Gary, I think you would have to increase the speed from 29.97 fps to about 31.75 fps to raise the pitch by a semitone, so 30 fps wouldn't be nearly enough to get D up to Eb.
On 2002-07-12 01:03, Ridseard wrote:
Gary, I think you would have to increase the speed from 29.97 fps to about 31.75 fps to raise the pitch by a semitone, so 30 fps wouldn't be nearly enough to get D up to Eb.
My video clips came from DivX rips of the full episodes, but the rips were not my own.
They were both video captures from Sky One, so they were undoubtedly of European origin.
I suppose it is possible that the sound could have been distorted by improper encoding, but I have no video tape or DVD to double check against.
[Raindogs] The ones you see wanderin' around after a rain. Ones that can't find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants. – Tom Waits
Tell us something.: A long time chatty Chiffer but have been absent for almost two decades. Returned in 2022 and still recognize some names! I also play anglo concertina now.
Strangely, if you can wait a month or two I may be able to tell you. I was about 12 or so when that episode came out. Still couldn't read music, but I had discovered that pencil marks on piano keys are very visible and come off easily. I 'recorded' the notes on the keys to learn the song. In a few months my old piano will be coming out of storage, and I will be able to read the keys and tell you what the notes were.
Assuming no one erased my piano.
Edit - I do remember that the first note was a white key, but I don't recall which episode I was working off of...I know I spent a LOT of time staring at the Lessons tape though.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: avanutria on 2002-07-12 09:35 ]</font>
On 2002-07-12 00:10, Loren wrote:
Holy cow, don't you guys have anything better to do?!?
Loren
Not really ...
31.75 fps to raise the pitch by a semitone, eh? Hmm ... your physics is probably better than mine so I'll take your word for it.
If the video came for a European source then it wouldn't be NTSC anyway, it would be in PAL which is 25 fps and is usually supported by digital video. Okay, so much for that theory.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garycrosby on 2002-07-12 15:43 ]</font>
Well, let's say a D (about 293.5 Hz) is on a tape going at 29.97 fps. Then there are 293.5 cycles per 29.97 frames. Using this ratio, there would be 311 cycles in 31.75 frames. So if the tape is run at 31.75 fps, the note would sound as 311 Hz, which is an Eb.
Hey I saw part of that TNG movie last nite on ABC where Data gets it on with the salamander head chick.
Did I miss Capn playing the whistle or was it only in episodic shows?
Well, since you guys seem to know.....
And I am sure somebody sped it up at some point. Remember, ya gotta fit in as many commercials as possible. I was interviewed by a radio station for a news story once and not only did they use digital compression (to take spaces out of between words) but they sped up my voice to Mickey pitch. Sheesh. It's a no brainer.
Unless somebody had one of those really great Eb whistles....
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-07-12 17:08 ]</font>
Tell us something.: I became interested in the beauty and versatility of Irish whistles and music over 20 years ago when I first found the Chiff boards. Yes, I do have WHOA, and I love my whistles. :)
On 2002-07-12 00:33, avanutria wrote:
It's a side effect of too much Star Trek. I suffer from it too. I can still recite Ode to Spot, although there is very little call for it lately.
Beth,
If you love Star Trek as much as I do, we will have a great time when you come down next weekend! I'm looking forward to meeting you.
Weekenders,
If by "salamander head chick" you mean the evil Borg queen in "First Contact" that was on last night, I like the description. I'll have to tell it to my husband. As for Capt. Picard playing the whistle, he only "played" it in two episodes of TNG, no movies.
Well, let's say a D (about 293.5 Hz) is on a tape going at 29.97 fps. Then there are 293.5 cycles per 29.97 frames. Using this ratio, there would be 311 cycles in 31.75 frames. So if the tape is run at 31.75 fps, the note would sound as 311 Hz, which is an Eb.
Makes sense to me. I hope my comment didn't make it appear that I doubted you because I certainly did not. I am very proficient at several things but, alas, physics is not among them
FWIW, I'm rapid Star Trek kind of guy but I thought the "Inner Light" episode was really good. It had a really neat story. The "salamander head chick" sounds rather interesting.
As for Capt. Picard playing the whistle, he only "played" it in two episodes of TNG, no movies.