Tuning Question

DarthWeasel · Post by **DarthWeasel** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:27 pm

Hello all. I just recieved a Concert D chanter.
I'd like to know that my chanter is in tune (or at least close) before I take it out to play at a session but I'm a bit confused on tuning.

My first instinct is to bust out my guitar tuner, but since Uilleann Pipes are tuned in "Just intonation" opposed to "Equal Temperment" this may prove difficult. Also I was told not to attempt to tune based on the bottom and back D as they are not stable enough.

I was wondering what strategies you use to determine if your instrument is in tune.

http://www.uilleann.org/Reeds.html

Back D - even 0.00
C# - minus 11.73
C Nat. - minus 3.91
B - minus 15.64
A - plus 1.96
G - minus 1.96
F# - minus 13.69
E - plus 3.91
Bottom D - even 0.00

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:23 pm

Check with your pipemaker to make sure your chanter was designed to play at concert pitch (most are, but you never know). Then go with your A in first octave. Regardless of Just and Equal temperment, A is always at 440Hz.

Remember also that as your reed warms up it will rise in pitch a bit. Play it for 20 minutes or so to make sure it is up at its working pitch, then check to see where A lies on your guitar tuner. If all notes on the chanter are in tune with each other, but your A is sharp or flat on the guitar tuner, you will need to move your reed in/out of the throat to compensate (usually in very tiny increments).

If I recall correctly, there is a chart in DM Quinn's "The Piper's Despair" that shows relative pitches for a D chanter against a guitar tuner.

djm

uillmann · Post by **uillmann** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:26 pm

Electronice tuners are useless. Most of the time they don't even know what note you are playing. I think the very best way to tune up is with a NEW Marine Band G harmonica (stamped 440). Or a reliable box player. The problem with tuning forks is that your brain doesn't have enough information to process anything more than the note of the fork, and you will likely adjust your pressure to suit the fork. Harmonicas give your brain all kinds of information on temper, playing in G and D and you dont need another hand to hold it. They are also great fun if you don't have regulators. Just stick it in your mouth and breathe. Do not overblow the harmonica and discard it when it starts to go flat. They are cheap to boot!

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:39 pm

I'll bet Steve Shaw paid you to say that.

djm

uillmann · Post by **uillmann** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:42 pm

Is he the Honer rep.?

fel bautista · Post by **fel bautista** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:46 pm

Didn't think of harp to tune to; the image I have is Bob Dylan on stage with a harmonica holder and a set of pipes... most likely wrong...

What kind of tuner gives that kind of accuracy and reads out in cents xx.xx???

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:34 pm

I heartily disagree with the comment on electronic tuners being useless...

Most cheap tuners are useless for the pipes, but when doing fine adjustments at home, I use a Petersen VSAM strobe tuner for adjusting tuning on both my concert and flat sets. Its able to handle just intonation in any root key, very handy for tuning drones, regs, and chanters.

http://www.petersontuners.com/products/ ... /index.cfm

Michael

David Lim · Post by **David Lim** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:46 pm

First I check that the reed is playing at a pressure that suits a session (mainly in terms of hearing myself and hopefully avoiding going too sharp). The bridle is tweaked if necessary.

I have a little box that plays A 440 when switched on, luckily it has quite a reedy tone so it interacts nicely with the chanter. I tune the chanter A to that note by moving the staple, whilst making sure I am using the correct bag pressure for the openess or otherwise of the reed. Then I tune the drones to the chanter A, then check my hard and back D and adjust with tape or a piece of paper if necessary.

The atmosphere of a pub will almost always result in the pitch of my chanter rising so I tend check the tuning and adjust fairly regularly.

If things go really pear shaped (sharp) I have a brass rush in my case which will run up the chanter just past the B hole.

David

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:55 pm

Gosh! I've never been called a B hole before.

djm

eric_smith · Post by **eric_smith** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:27 pm

Until you get the harmonica, http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~tuner/tuner_e.html for a tuning fork.

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:56 pm

Over time you are going to need to develop an ear for tuning. Start now by learning to hear the octave between low and back D. With training you will be able to discern when your back D is out of whack.

When I check my reeds, I forget about drones first. I play the chanter in this fashion-

Low D up to back D, down to A, down to G, up to 2nd octave G, down to back D (to check if it doesn't collapse under the presure used for top G) and so on.

It's called tuning by intervals and the more you become accustomed with just intonation, the easier it becomes.

I know this doesn' t really help you at this stage, but it's something to aim for.

Cheers,

DavidG

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:57 pm

Tuning UPs to harmonica - ask the man who knows: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 984#416872

djm

uillmann · Post by **uillmann** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:28 am

What do you want to do? Watch blinking lights? Close your eyes and be transported.

billh · Post by **billh** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:03 am

DarthWeasel wrote:Hello all. I just recieved a Concert D chanter.
I'd like to know that my chanter is in tune (or at least close) before I take it out to play at a session but I'm a bit confused on tuning.

Hmm, something strikes me as odd about this comment. (Your table seems about right BTW, though I didn't double check the calcs. - Note that the Ds and A, and to some extent the G, are pretty much in line with the e-tuner, a useful factoid).

The thing that strikes me as odd is that you want to know if it is "in tune" _before you take it to a session_; presumably your goal is to be "in tune" in the session. So you aren't asking "are my pipes in tune with themselves", so much as you asking "will my pipes be in tune with <insert unknown session condition here>".

No electronic tuner will help you there, because it depends on the conditions in the room where the session is held, and the tuning of the other instruments (for instance, the box, if there is one, might be sharp, or wet-tuned in which case the tonal centres are all fuzzed up anyway, and boxes tend to be tuned to equal temperament).

In any case, if something is badly amiss, it will be obvious (to you too, we hope

), and if any discrepancies are minor, then you'll probably compensate while playing, or it will change with temperature etc. The only time when the nuances of tuning to a couple cents come into play IMO is when playing against the drones, which I assume you haven't got yet.

That's not to say that tuning isn't important - only that it's a matter of what you're tuning against.

Bill

Andy Parnell · Post by **Andy Parnell** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:00 am

What I tend to do is tune my A (do the 20 minute thingy too) to my A on my whistle (which is fixed and always in tune once warmed up). This puts my chanter in tune with my whistle that is exactly 440. From there, everything else is relative although my back D tends to be slightly out (which is the chanter's fault I think).

It's a lot easier than a harmonica or tuning fork too.

Thus I'm usually 'in' when I go into a session. The problems of course start in Winter over here where temperature starts to play havoc.

Andy

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