Reviving the Diet and Weight Loss discussion

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:12 am

There's a couple of interesting ideas out lately that caught my eye. One of them was about foods that actually use more calories to digest than what they give to you. Apples was one of the examples, but I would have had to buy the book to learn more. One weight trainer/coach I was watching on tv recommended a meal of apple sauce mixed with rolled oats (yuck!).

Another item emailed to me by a friend was a study done at some clinic in Florida where they noted that ingesting something very acidic just before a meal would temporarily lower your insulin levels. Since insulin is used in the digestion of food, they say that this reduced level meant that more food would just pass through than contribute to the old waistline. They say that this is why the grapefruit diet works. Since the study was done in Florida I am somewhat dubious.

For exercise, 350 calories per day is a good goal to set -about 1/2 hour strenuous walking. To get your body into the habit of burning energy instead of storing it requires sticking with any diet/exercise routine fo a minimum of three months, and preferably six. Few people stick to any plan that long, so small wonder they don't see the results.

djm

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:14 am

Disclaimer: I would like to lose some weight, and I appreciate this thread very much.

To give some perspective, there was a study reported several months ago that found that overall mortality was lowest among people who were slightly overweight, compared to people who were not overweight or very overweight. I don't recall the source, but it was mainstream research published in a well regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal. It got a fair amount of media play at the time.

From strictly a health perspective, it may not be so important to get that last 10 or 15 pounds off to achieve one's "ideal weight."

Best wishes,
Jerry

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:46 am

djm wrote: One weight trainer/coach I was watching on tv recommended a meal of apple sauce mixed with rolled oats (yuck!).

Just raw rolled oats? Or do you cook them first?

Someone on another board I visit reported success with the Atkins diet. Eggs, bacon, sausage, steaks, etc. He reported that his cholesterol was not high but.. I don't know...that diet kind of scares me.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:01 am

djm wrote:There's a couple of interesting ideas out lately that caught my eye. One of them was about foods that actually use more calories to digest than what they give to you. Apples was one of the examples, but I would have had to buy the book to learn more.

As a (former) anorexic, we called these foods "negative calories." They include most fruits and vegetables (celery is the "most negative" in as much as it burns more calories to digest than it contains) and pickles and mustard and some crackers and diet sodas...I used to have a huge list of negative calorie foods but I destroyed it when I began recovery a couple years ago.

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:45 am

Re: are 'negative calories' myth or reality ?
Date: Thu Sep 9 07:58:00 1999
Posted By: Jill Irvin, Staff, Food and Nutrition, Ohio State University
Area of science: Biochemistry

For the Manufacturer I think the negative calories statements are just a marketing tool. For the consumer, I think the negative calories statements are wishful thinking. In fact, there is no such thing as a negative calorie.

I believe negative calories are supposed to result when the energy it takes to metabolize a product exceeds the calories in the product. Usually things like celery are claimed to have negative calories since they don't have many calories and they would seem to require a lot of energy to consume, what with all the chewing involved. But the amount of energy required to metabolize a food item is a very individual thing, with some people being very efficient metabolizers while other people are inefficient. So there is no way that this claim can be made for a product.

There are a lot of nutrition related myths that are floating around out there, being spread in the popular press, by the media, and by people who claim to be nutritionists but are really just interested in making money. It can be difficult sometimes to sort out the truth from the myths. One good way to do this is to ask yourself, "does this claim sound too good to be true?" If it does, then it probably is false.

[Source: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/se ... .Bc.r.html ]

Repeat after me:

"There is no substitute for eating less and exercising more."

M

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:47 am

"There is no substitute for eating less and exercising more."

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:48 am

Cranberry wrote:"There is no substitute for eating less and exercising more."

Good man! Keep it up!

M

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:25 am

Cranberry wrote:we called these foods "negative calories." They include most fruits and vegetables

Unfortunately, none of these is remotely satisfying as a food stuff. I would have to eat these by the pound to satisfy hunger, and then spend the rest of the day on the run.

Oh, I get it. The weight loss comes from all the running. What a novel diet concept.

djm

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:57 pm

mvhplank wrote:"There is no substitute for eating less and exercising more."

Yes there is. It's called obesity.

raindog1970 · Post by **raindog1970** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:29 pm

The starving college student diet works exceptionally well, and is very easy to follow.
You simply eat instant ramen noodles three times a day, and jazz them up a bit with additional ingredients to keep them from getting boring... and to increase the nutritional content enough to keep you from actually starving!

I'm not trying to be funny, the diet really works... and there are lots of recipe ideas on <A HREF="http://mattfischer.com/ramen/">The Official Ramen Homepage</A>.
Of course, this diet probably isn't very healthy... but considering how I normally eat, it is a significant improvement!

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:45 pm

Ah...Ramen. But the salt content in the flavoring is off the chart, and not so good for the hypertensive set.

But I love 'em. I just don't use all the flavor packet.

M

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:52 pm

I don't think I live on the typical "college diet." For one, I don't even have the money to buy ramen noodles (nor would I eat them if I had the money) so I resort to stealing food from the cafeteria.

(Besides I have no way to cook them even if I had them...)

And I don't have a fridge so I can only steal non-perishable items like cookies, bananas, oranges, and stuff like that. I tend to bring lots of dry cereal and bread and bagels back to my room. This is why, if you see me around campus, I nearly always have my bookbag with me--theres stolen food in it! I feel like a hamster, the way they stuff their cheek pouches with food and hoard it up, only I use a bookbag instead of cheek pouches.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've made a bagel and peanut butter sandwich at dinner and saved it for breakfast the next morning because I didn't want to walk all the way over there at 7am.

When I do swipe food, I make sure to exit through the side door so the lady up front doesn't notice me walking out with it. But please don't tell anybody.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:29 pm

Tyler Morris wrote:I've gotten beyond that stage where I can eat what I want and still slip into my 36 inch trousers...you know, the stage where your muscles give up, wave a little white flag and suddenly you're fat....
...Now I actually have to try just to maintain my weight.

I've always been the 'skinny marink' of the family and never paid ANY attention to what I ate. Went from an adult low wt of 98.5 (for 10 years at least!) then quit smoking. Up to 115 and looked and felt pretty good.

Then it started inching up. . .at 125 I thought I was at an okay weight for a thirty something small boned woman. At 130 I thought I'd just pay attention to what I was eating and it would go away. At 135 I really considered watching what I ate and not eating so much junk. At 141.5 I had one blowout week in Santa Fe, and Tyghre and I headed for Weight Watchers.

Since 5/15 I've taken off 13 or so pounds by simply eating sensibly according to the Core Plan of Weight Watchers. Tyghre exercises on top of it, and has pared off 25 lb in the same timeframe. I go from being reasonably content with Core as a lifestyle -- to feeling utterly desolate and needy. Eating well is okay, but oh do I miss junk, or a nice slab of velvet cake with cream cheese frosting, or fried whole-belly clams. 'Screwing up' for one week - and I'm not talking about falling entirely off the wagon, just slipping up on the details -- undoes a full month of weight loss, and that really annoys me.

But I look at the people with the faddish diets, especially the really freaky ones, and wonder where they're coming from and how they go about their lives in general.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:16 pm

Tyghress wrote:
'Screwing up' for one week - and I'm not talking about falling entirely off the wagon, just slipping up on the details -- undoes a full month of weight loss, and that really annoys me.

That's one of the hardest things about being female, I think...and likely one reason so many of us become anorexic. If you have a weight issue, you can never let your guard down. People are always saying "Oh have a little," or "once in a while won't hurt"...but they're not the ones who get on the scale and see the three pounds they worked three months to lose reappear overnight (and no, folks...it ain't "just water").

My metabolism changed radically when I had my daughter. Now, if I eat fewer than 1000 calories a day and work out like a demon (we're talking a MINIMUM of an hour a day, both aerobic and weights), the best I can hope for is to hold my own. If I let up, even for a brief period, weight just piles on. It's very depressing to know that I'm either going to spend my life getting fatter and fatter or never be able to relax about food and exercise again. Doctors don't help either...they're all convinced that I'm sitting around eating bon bons all day and say things like "you don't really realize how much you're eating" (Jaysus! I'm a former anorexic...I can give them the calorie count for just about anything!), or "you must not be working out as much as you think you are." I hate 'em.

Redwolf

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:25 pm

Cranberry wrote:I don't think I live on the typical "college diet." For one, I don't even have the money to buy ramen noodles (nor would I eat them if I had the money) so I resort to stealing food from the cafeteria. (Besides I have no way to cook them even if I had them...)

1. They're 7, 8, 10, or even 12 packages for $1.

2. They do not require cooking . . . only rehydrating in hot water. Surely you have a microwave? Somewhere? Or something? A hotpot?

If microwave, break into a cup or bowl, cover in water, and nuke a minute or two. Don't let it boil over. Stir in the flavoring.

If all you have is hot water, smash the package into crumbles, pour on hot water, stir in the flavoring, and let it sit a few minutes.

3. Didn't you meet a nice Japanese boy? Ramen is his national food. Invite him over for dinner. He'll show you how to doctor them up.

And I don't have a fridge so I can only steal non-perishable items like cookies, bananas, oranges, and stuff like that. I tend to bring lots of dry cereal and bread and bagels back to my room.

Add cheese to that list. Cheese does not require refrigeration. Nor does dry sausage, like salami (at least for a while).

I couldn't tell you how many times I've made a bagel and peanut butter sandwich at dinner and saved it for breakfast the next morning because I didn't want to walk all the way over there at 7am.

This is why you've lost 10 pounds.