America Looking in the Mirror

[missy]

I posted a link to an interesting article in the political thread - trying to follow Dale's request.........

[Cynth]

s1m0n---Well, I'm still hearing different things in different places. Now at this part of the FEMA website, and I didn't have time to go over the website thoroughly so this is just one thing I found, I found this:
http://www.fema.gov/library/dproc.shtm

"The Disaster Process and Disaster Aid Programs

Response and Recovery

First Response to a disaster is the job of local government's emergency services with help from nearby municipalities, the state and volunteer agencies. In a catastrophic disaster, and if the governor requests, federal resources can be mobilized through theU.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) for search and rescue, electrical power, food, water, shelter and other basic human needs.

It is the long-term Recovery phase of disaster which places the most severe financial strain on a local or state government. Damage to public facilities and infrastructure, often not insured, can overwhelm even a large city.

A governor's request for a major disaster declaration could mean an infusion of federal funds, but the governor must also commit significant state funds and resources for recovery efforts.

A Major Disaster could result from a hurricane, earthquake, flood, tornado or major fire which the President determines warrants supplemental federal aid. The event must be clearly more than state or local governments can handle alone. If declared, funding comes from the President's Disaster Relief Fund, which is managed by FEMA, and disaster aid programs of other participating federal agencies.

A Presidential Major Disaster Declaration puts into motion long-term federal recovery programs, some of which are matched by state programs, and designed to help disaster victims, businesses and public entities.

An Emergency Declaration is more limited in scope and without the long-term federal recovery programs of a Major Disaster Declaration. Generally, federal assistance and funding are provided to meet a specific emergency need or to help prevent a major disaster from occurring."


The bolding is mine. The Presidential Major Disaster Declaration, as defined here, looks as though it applies to rebuilding sorts of things. I'm not disputing anyone, just adding to the confusion.

[Cynth]

Oh dear. This is a political thread? I thought it was a hurricane thread. We'll never find that article over there. Is the whole thread supposed to go over there then? I'm afraid I'm having a little cranky spell right now.

[s1m0n]

That's interesting; I wonder if something has been changed on their website recently. I'll go looking for the source I took my information from.

s1m0n---Well, I'm still hearing different things in different places. Now at this part of the FEMA website, and I didn't have time to go over the website thoroughly so this is just one thing I found, I found this:
http://www.fema.gov/library/dproc.shtm

"The Disaster Process and Disaster Aid Programs

Response and Recovery

First Response to a disaster is the job of local government's emergency services with help from nearby municipalities, the state and volunteer agencies. In a catastrophic disaster, and if the governor requests, federal resources can be mobilized through theU.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) for search and rescue, electrical power, food, water, shelter and other basic human needs.

It is the long-term Recovery phase of disaster which places the most severe financial strain on a local or state government. Damage to public facilities and infrastructure, often not insured, can overwhelm even a large city.

A governor's request for a major disaster declaration could mean an infusion of federal funds, but the governor must also commit significant state funds and resources for recovery efforts.

A Major Disaster could result from a hurricane, earthquake, flood, tornado or major fire which the President determines warrants supplemental federal aid. The event must be clearly more than state or local governments can handle alone. If declared, funding comes from the President's Disaster Relief Fund, which is managed by FEMA, and disaster aid programs of other participating federal agencies.

A Presidential Major Disaster Declaration puts into motion long-term federal recovery programs, some of which are matched by state programs, and designed to help disaster victims, businesses and public entities.

An Emergency Declaration is more limited in scope and without the long-term federal recovery programs of a Major Disaster Declaration. Generally, federal assistance and funding are provided to meet a specific emergency need or to help prevent a major disaster from occurring."


The bolding is mine. The Presidential Major Disaster Declaration, as defined here, looks as though it applies to rebuilding sorts of things. I'm not disputing anyone, just adding to the confusion.

[Cynth]

Well, I think there is a lot of stuff out there and I'm not convinced that it is going to be possible to figure out what the rules really were. It is interesting to try though. I don't think we even know if we are looking at something current.

[s1m0n]

Here's what the white House had to say on August 27.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 827-1.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana


The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide [red]at its discretion[/red], equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.

That looks pretty unequivocal--according to the president, FEMA had full discretion to act. Why didn't they?

[Tommy]

The president must wait for the Governor to ask for help. And the six steps of the major disaster process must be used.

According to FEMA's website, once the President declares a disaster area, they're in charge of disaster relief.

As far as all the accounts on the ground are concerned, that's been the opinion of FEMA in action, as well. They thought--and acted--as if they were in charge, but never actually *did* much that was helpful. They certainly felt no embarrassment about making rules and issuing orders.

I don't find the "we had to wait for the governor" excuse convincing. What kept them out of Alabama, anyway?

The president does not have to wait for a plea from a governor. In 1894 President Grover Cleveland ordered federal troops to put an end to the rioting in the Chicago rail yard during the Pullman Strike. Despite the objections of Governor William Altgeld of Illinois.
When a governor askes for 24 more hours to get things under control? How much time should the president take to decide the dilemma.
How many times would it take for a president to intervene before he is accused of being a dictator?

[Cynth]

s1m0n, that is definitely very interesting. It appears to be a solid link in this chain of events. I don't know why they didn't respond. It does look here as though FEMA was in charge. I heard Michael Brown in an interview, in which he was asked why FEMA was telling people to go to the Red Cross before they went to FEMA, say that FEMA did things like put money in people's checking accounts and that these people had no accounts. That was a very strange statement, but an interesting one because it seems as though there are several ideas of what FEMA does. Here it sounds as though they would be in charge of everything.

[Cynth]

Tommy, are you saying the governor asked the president to delay? It seems like first you said the governor had to make an official request, and then it sounds like you're saying the President doesn't have to wait. I'm a little confused here.

[rebl_rn]

Actually, even with Pres. Bush's order, the normal chain of events is to wait for the state to request help. The order from Bush was intended to speed things along because, normally, when a state requests federal help, the President has to approve it before they can go. By signing the declaration beforehand, the feds can go as soon as the requests come in and not have to wait for a White House signature. And the disaster declaration in itself is really not so much for the response phase of the disaster but for the recovery phase, when the rebuilding and the like begin and people need money. That's what FEMA usually does.

In every single emergency preparedness training I have been to, it has been emphasized that the LOCAL government is in charge and the state and federal assets are there for ASSISTANCE, and only when requested.

Now, can the feds step in sooner without a request if they see that things are really bad? I honestly don't know the answer to the question, though I can't see that there would be a whole lot of objection.

[rebl_rn]

This is from the FEMA Independent Study Course, "A Citizen's Guide to Disaster Assistance".

COMMON MYTHS AND MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT FEDERAL DISASTER ASSISTANCE
1. The Federal government has total responsibility for disaster recovery.
The local government is primarily responsible for preparing for disasters that might affect a community and helping residents recover from such events. The great majority of disasters are handled successfully at the local level. State and Federal resources are intended to assist (emphasis mine) the community only when the community’s own resources are not sufficient.

http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is7lst.asp


Here's another interesting read from a FEMA independent study course. Check out Unit 3 "Response Operations" Disaster Basics

[s1m0n]

Actually, even with Pres. Bush's order, the normal chain of events is to wait for the state to request help.

Either FEMA was activated, or they weren't. If they weren't (despite Bush's order) then they had no standing to be involved at all, and would not have been deployed.

That's clearly not the case: FEMA was there and therefore must have been activated. When that's the case, they're in charge as the president's order indicates.

[Tommy]

Tommy, are you saying the governor asked the president to delay? It seems like first you said the governor had to make an official request, and then it sounds like you're saying the President doesn't have to wait. I'm a little confused here.

Sorry for the confusion.

Ok let me put it this way. The governor is supppse to ask for help and the president and FEMA decide weather or not to give it.

Than in the fine print the President does not have to wait for the Governors plea. This does not happen very often.

I am sure I saw a news clip around Wednesday and the story was that the NO mayor and the Governor talked to Bush about help. Then the Governor asked to handle it herself for 24 more hours. I only saw that clip once and nothing else about it has been brought up.

[brianc]

Tommy, are you saying the governor asked the president to delay? It seems like first you said the governor had to make an official request, and then it sounds like you're saying the President doesn't have to wait. I'm a little confused here.

Sorry for the confusion.

Ok let me put it this way. The governor is supppse to ask for help and the president and FEMA decide weather or not to give it.

Than in the fine print the President does not have to wait for the Governors plea. This does not happen very often.

I am sure I saw a news clip around Wednesday and the story was that the NO mayor and the Governor talked to Bush about help. Then the Governor asked to handle it herself for 24 more hours. I only saw that clip once and nothing else about it has been brought up.

Tommy, you are correct.

And add to that the fact that FEMA doesn't control the military, at any time.

[Tommy]

Now after reading Newsweek it looks like there was some dickering about who would be in charge of the recoverey.

The White house lawyers were in disagreement over sending the Military.

FEMA is trying to round up Their workers. A lot of them are part time on stand by. Our High school does not want to let the teachers/FEMA workers go due to the new students from Louisiana.

I am not head hunting or seeking blame. But tracking/documenting what is going on. How ever - A head may appear.