Adam, Eve and T. Rex

[The Weekenders]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

[Bloomfield]

Blackwood wrote:
Quote:
So the only skillful response is to ignore these posts/people;
anything else fuels the game. Ignoring them starves the game

good advice, sometimes very hard to do if all you hear are personal insults from some people. I suppose they can only do that on an internet chat board not in the real world, maybe this is their only chance to "talk it up" as they most likely couldn't do it face to face for lack of backbone.

You don't seem to be doing well generally in getting answers to your questions, Blackwood. But perhaps you can answer a question that I have.

What do you consider a "personal insult"? Here are some examples as options, perhaps you could point out the ones that are personal insults.

a) You're an idiot.
b) You are trolling. Please stop.
c) I don't like reading your posts. They seem disruptive to me.
d) If you can't say it nicely, don't say it.
e) All I ever hear from you is personal insults.
f) You aren't a straight shooter/your motives are dishonest.
g) You must lack backbone.
h) You are skewing the facts.
i) You are telling lies.
j) You are a troll.

Bloom, context and intent is everything in life, literal statements can mean anything, nothing, or something. Written communication especially is very limited as we do not have access to facial impression or audio.

Let me give you a specific example:

A while back I posted an article referring to x% of scientist believing in God. I was wondering whether the study was a US based study only. I pointed out that the US has the highest % of religious believers among industrialized nations (my assertion was later confirmed by another poster in that the study was indeed US based).

Some other poster came on the thread and didn't talk about the study or the question raised, but instead raised the spector that I was prejudiced against people from the Orient ( ) What in the world was the purpose of that poster? He did not come to discuss the merit of the original article or whether my point was correct or incorrect. Instead he very subtle, yet clear in accusing me of borderline racism. What was the intent? The intent was not to discuss the subject but to attack for what reason is beyond me. I asked the poster to clarify his intentions and to apologize for implying i was prejudiced . He, of course, never did either.

The point is that while the literal statement can be very innocent, the intent and the context can make it very insulting. If you go through the various threads you will find that certain posters bring in items for discussions usually supported by an outside source article. Some people end up contributing to the discussion constructively by either agreeing or disgareeing with their own viewpoints and/or additional information, but then there are some who post not on the subject itself but on some tangent that does not invlove the subject and the disucssion deterioates.
I ask you: what is the motivation of these posters? Ie the guy who backhandedly accused be of racisim?

And you would surely tell me that the reverse is true also: When (just an example) someone asks other posters pointed questions and quotes them back their posts in case they "suffer from amnesia", when someone sees everyone else always using personal insults, because everyone around him is probably spineless... those things don't have to be personal insults (although they sure look like insults), because the poster in our example had a reason for using them and because they did it first and because they won't stick to the topic.

You see: this all a bit too glib and easy for me: "I'm just trying to have a discussion and everyone is always insulting me." I don't think I've ever come across a situation as black & white as that. Your example about your post on the percentage of people believing in god, now. You're all in a huff because the discussion "deteriorated," which is another way of saying: it wasn't confined to what you wanted discussed. Well, hey: it's a discussion board and everything can be discussed. You can start a thread, but you don't own it.

In this specific example I find there may have been more at work. Perhaps the guy who responded felt that there was a bit of a subtext to your post? That under the guise of asking about the number of religious scientists *in America* you were slamming someone? Perhaps the guy felt that you were giving him a bit of "Ah, I told you so! America is off the rocker!"? Asking you about other scientists may have been the way to point this out to you, perhaps?

All surmise of course, I don't think I remember the thread. Bottom line though is that on the one hand you speak easily about everything being intent and context and literal words meaning nothing. On the other hand you go on to tell me that you can determine from the literal meaning of a question you were asked that it was off topic and made the thread deteriorate and was insinuating that you were a racist, without even once mentioning that the poster's intent might have been something else entirely (or mentioning the context the poster might have found relevant: for example of your posting pattern on the chiffboard, and the preceding threads with religious debates).

I submit: For you, it's good and well to use context-contingency when it gets you out of explaining the inconsistency between your posts and your expectations of other posters. You're happy enough to stick to easy literal meaning where convenient, or imply that the motivation is to insult you. In other words: you get to call people names, but others had better behave or be spineless. Probably because from some people "all you ever hear" is personal insults. Regardless of context, I presume.

[jGilder]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're conspicuous by their absence whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

[Denny]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're curiously absent whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

commie plot?

[jGilder]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're conspicuous by their absence whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

commie plot?

Don't panic now... it has more to do with double standards.

[Denny]

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're curiously absent whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

commie plot?

Don't panic now... it has more to do with double standards.

thank God, I was afraid it was history.

[Lorenzo]

May I respectfully up the ante, Wombat?

Oh, I get it.

Wombat: Bloomfield, if you truly love me, call me an idiot.
Bloomfield: Wombat, you're an idiot.

Greater idiot: your an idiot, and I'm a greater idiot for even talking to you.

Lesser idiot: how would a greater idiot know that for sure?

Greater idiot: well, that's what they taught me to say at church.

[Jerry Freeman]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're curiously absent whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

Not curious at all.

I've had plenty of arguments with Weeks (and with Jim Stone and Wombat and Lorenzo and plenty of others), but there's been much more of a willingness to look at the other person's point of view in those debates and a willingness to look for common ground.

And there's been a willingness to dial back some of the rhetoric and even take back some things (as Murphy Stout did, incidentally, in case you hadn't noticed) if the other party to the debate could point out a reasonable counter to whatever had been stated.

Despite different politics and differeces of opinion on a wide range of topics, a genuine friendship and mutual regard has emerged. There is a clear reason for this, and it would be worthwhile for those who feel they are constantly being criticized "for no reason at all" to take a closer look at the dynamics involved.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Bloomfield]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're conspicuous by their absence whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

read back sometime to the pre Dec 2004 stuff. Weeks has gotten called on lots of stuff in the past.

[Denny]

I called him something this year.
He had earned it. So?
what's the big deal?

[jGilder]

As Churchlady would say, "Isn't that ConVEEEENient!?"

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're conspicuous by their absence whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

read back sometime to the pre Dec 2004 stuff. Weeks has gotten called on lots of stuff in the past.

Sorry, I'm new here... I hadn't noticed, I only joined mid December... I plead ignorance... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

[The Weekenders]

Mean People Suck. Mean starts with the letter M.

I want the letter M struck from the alphabet.

That is how convoluted I find Gilder's stance on the word troll. Some of us have found a few of his posts to be trolling. He and Blackwood, I guess, disagree. So let's take the word out of the lexicon. I don't know if it reminds me more of Orwell or the French Revolution. First we stopped using the Hitler reference, which seemed reasonable. Then we decided that "terrorist" is in the eye of the beholder so we can't use that. Now, we'll stop using the word "troll" because even though most of agree with what it is, a few don't so our opinions are meaningless and the word needs to be struck. I guess we can slim down the English language eventually, on the positive side.

I will say this: when you reach a point that easy, intuitive and natural consensus is ignored because of solely intellectually-based arguments, then community itself is fairly destabilized, ripe for "re-education" including language "re-assignment."

And if none of the rest of you see it as convenient for Gilder alone (hence my Churchlady reference), then I'm off to the corner with the whistle. It's okay. It's a nice corner with birds and flowers and chirping birds, and basket-weaving and.......[Weekender wanders off into Retro Land with no ill-will towards Gilder, just overall bemusement at the turn of the thread]...

[Jerry Freeman]

It's interesting... if I made little digs here and there like you do, Enders, I'd have the likes of herb and Jerry pouncing on me and accusing me of being rude, disruptive or negative. They're conspicuous by their absence whenever you do it. Curious indeed.

read back sometime to the pre Dec 2004 stuff. Weeks has gotten called on lots of stuff in the past.

Sorry, I'm new here... I hadn't noticed, I only joined mid December... I plead ignorance... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

It's an OK place, really.

I hope you'll stick around. We're just starting to get acquainted. These things can take some time.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Jerry Freeman]

And, JGilder ...

If you can't behave, I'll have to make you sit in the corner again. I'm not sure which corner it is Weeks is planning on slinking off to, so you might end up in the corner with Weekenders. (I agree with Weeks about the troll word, BTW.)

Best wishes,
Jerry

[The Weekenders]

It's okay, Jer, I hear the dude plays a mean flute, concertina, etc etc.....