America Looking in the Mirror

[Tommy]

The Lt. General's name is Russel Honore.

Weeks, I don't think the idea behind not rebuilding New Orleans is to gain wetlands (although that'd be a nice addition), but that it's an incredibly stupid place to have a city. They'll rebuild, I'm sure, but the same thing is going to happen again...

Susan

I know, Susan, but they rebuilt Galveston WAY back under the same circumstances. I think it's just too hard to swallow, the idea of giving up even if it's impractical...

When Galveston was rebuilt after the 1900 storm- The remaining houses were put up on stilts and the island was raised using sand from the Gulf of Mexico. Houses there are still put up on stilts.

[jGilder]

I was a fan of his from some of his earlier work but, increasingly, I think he's just a blowhard. He's kind of a Rush Limbaugh of the left and we don't need that. Al Franken annoys me, too. A shill is a shill, regardless of the side they're on.

I'd love to see Michael and Rush have a debate... or Franken and O'Reilly. I think it might separate the shills from the boys.

[susnfx]

Another nice story about Gen. Honore just this moment being reported by the CNN reporter with him: They were driving down a street with people walking or sitting in terrible conditions, when they saw a young mother with two babies in her arms. She was apparently on the verge of exhaustion, with the babies nearly sliding out of her arms. Gen. Honore stopped the vehicle, went to her and took the babies and passed them off to soldiers and said, "We're going to get you help." The babies (along with some other babies) were taken with their mothers onto an aircraft carrier (if I heard that correctly) where they are receiving immediate care.

The CNN reporter is obviously extraordinarily impressed with Gen. Honore.

Susan

[jGilder]

Was Bush just watching it on TV while he was "on vacation" and thinking it was just another reality TV show?

I'm not a fan of the President, to put it mildly, but I'm pretty sure that you know that he didn't think it was a reality TV show. Furthermore, nobody has any idea at this point what Bush did or didn't order and when he did or didn't order it. His more fair-minded critics are going to give this some time to settle-out before drawing conclusions.

I was just wondering... as many others are as well.

[brianc]

In an open letter to President Bush posted on his Web site, liberal filmmaker and anti-war activist Michael Moore suggests that a delay in rescuing stranded residents of New Orleans was based on race and class.

"It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands has no transportation to get out of town," Moore wrote. "C'mon, they're black! ... Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days?"

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp? ... 0902b.html


Rich white boy playing the race card.

[s1m0n]

Rich white boy playing the race card.

Accurately, in my view.

There's nothing ignoble in calling a spade and spade*, and the complete government disinterest in the poverty-stricken citizens of New Orleans was palpable. They only began to stir themselves when the political fallout began.

*Err, no pun intended.

[Cynth]

I just can't bring myself to accept that as the truth. I'm not debating it with anyone, I just can't believe it. Not able to.

[daveboling]

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- As his city skidded deeper into chaos, New Orleans' embattled mayor accused federal officials of dragging their feet while people are dying in deplorable conditions.

Mayor Ray Nagin's voice cracked with anger and anguish Thursday night in an interview with New Orleans radio station WWL.

"We're getting reports and calls that [are] breaking my heart from people saying, 'I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out.' And that's happening as we speak."

Nagin said the time has long past for federal authorities to act on their promises.

"You mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on man," he said.

"I need reinforcements," he pleaded. "I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. This is a national disaster. ""

When the mandatory evacuation order was given for New Orleans, I think I know where Mayor Nagin could have gotten some of the busses he needed:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... 1109012015

You might think that the leader of a major city who puts on the appearance (now) of caring for the citizens of his city(who do not have the means to evacuate) would have been searching for a way to get them out. With ~200 busses in the view of the above picture at his command, and likely a few more out of the picture frame, I'd have to pose the question to his honor "Why aren't you ordering the school busses out into the city. 200 x 50 = 10000+ people who could have been moved to safety. Its a lot easier to spread the mass of people out among scattered relief centers when they are in busses, rather than trying to bring them out 10-15 at a load in a helicopter.

And as far as dogging the relief forces for deploying so slowly; how many of the whiners in this group have experience in large scale logistics? Do you believe that the MRE's and water tanks sit poised next to Chinooks ready to be airlifted? In a major deployment (which this is) the long pole in the tent is always logistics and support, and this mission is all logistics and support.

[clarinetnut]

When the mandatory evacuation order was given for New Orleans, I think I know where Mayor Nagin could have gotten some of the busses he needed:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... 1109012015

You might think that the leader of a major city who puts on the appearance (now) of caring for the citizens of his city(who do not have the means to evacuate) would have been searching for a way to get them out. With ~200 busses in the view of the above picture at his command, and likely a few more out of the picture frame, I'd have to pose the question to his honor "Why aren't you ordering the school busses out into the city. 200 x 50 = 10000+ people who could have been moved to safety. Its a lot easier to spread the mass of people out among scattered relief centers when they are in busses, rather than trying to bring them out 10-15 at a load in a helicopter.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you have written here (and correct me if I am)....all those buses are underwater. They are unusable.

*back to lurking*

[Cynth]

I was wondering if they lacked drivers for them. The school bus drivers would not be expected to stay and evacuate people I suppose, if they could drive their families out. And I suppose there was no where to take people. And now, of course, I guess since the busses are under water they won't work. I don't know why they didn't try to use them. It will be a good question.

I think a lot of people are interested in hearing about the logistics and having questions answered before they make judgements. I know it is very complicated at best. But I do think the mayor and the President both should be allowed to answer the questions before being condemned.


[Hi clarinetnut--I remember you from a few days ago. I was going to tell you then to come out of hiding. ]

[s1m0n]

I think the point was that the busses could have been used to get people out before the hurricane struck, if there had been enough foresight and political will.

[izzarina]

And as far as dogging the relief forces for deploying so slowly; how many of the whiners in this group have experience in large scale logistics? Do you believe that the MRE's and water tanks sit poised next to Chinooks ready to be airlifted? In a major deployment (which this is) the long pole in the tent is always logistics and support, and this mission is all logistics and support.

Although I don't feel I personally am qualified to answer this, my husband is. When my husband was stationed in Ft. Lewis, WA, his entire post could be deployed to Korea within 24 hours in order to repel a North Korean attack on the South...this including water, MREs, and whatever is needed to wage a full scale war in Korea. 24 hours is MORE than enough time to mobilize an active duty unit to give aid in this type of situation. The fact of the matter is the FEMA director said there was no need to call in active duty troops in an interview earlier this week. In an interview on Thursday, FEMA said that they did not realize there was a problem until Thursday (the day of the interview). So the problem was when were the active duty military personnel mobilized. They were mobilized YESTERDAY and they arrived TODAY. It's obvious that the administration dropped the ball on this, and I have no doubt that the FEMA director is going to be "dismissed" after the whole thing is sorted out.

[Cynth]

s1m0n---Yes, I agree. It seems like they could have found reliable volunteers to drive them. But I don't know where they would have taken people. I think there would be churches that could act as shelters. I guess that's what should have been set up too. But then......Well, anyway I do think it will be a good question.

[jGilder]

The regular school bus drivers might have evacuated with their families and been unavailable to drive. Perhaps the Feds should have ordered National Guard troops to drive those busses around and pick up people who couldn't evacuate.

• 

[Dale]

....I have no doubt that the FEMA director is going to be "dismissed" after the whole thing is sorted out.

I'd bet you were right, but for the administrations horror of admitting error. He's likely resign to "spend more time with his family."