Question for the Moderators

[Azalin]

By the way I really think that a bunch of you are acting like real morons, and I am fed up, not by the noise, but by the constant mobbing some of us get everytime we state something you don't like. Now, picture of crying babies and all that sh*t directed at Murphy because he started two damn threads about it (some of you started hundreds of useless freaking threads) to me it's damn unacceptable and I had my share of this place, really. If many of you want to act like a bunch of retards because we dear tell you that the sun isnt black, or we think the sun is a giant mushroom, I clearly understand why you want a Pub.

It's always been the same, those of you "promoting peace" and screaming out loud "live and let live" are the worse hypocrite, direspectful and mean-spirited people I've seen and it makes me sick, really.

[jGilder]

jGilder, speaking of medicine.

What I am taking away from this thread and the other MurphyStout started is that you aren't really up to message boards. You are too quick to take things personally, everything is always about you, you can't handle well-meaning criticism, and you keep going on and on about your perceived grievances. Now, I have no business saying this sort of thing, so here are three reasons why I say it anyway:

How am I supposed to take it when I'm called a "troll"? I think you'd take it personally too if you were told you're full of BS and your sources are whackos and the information you're presenting is "crap," and you're telling lies, etc. etc. Maybe you're a saint, but I'm just an average Earthling type. When people do this, if it isn't about me -- who is it about then?

The only things I consider to be about me are the things that are about me. I don't agree with your perception that I turn everything into an issue about me -- you'd have to produce a considerable amount of evidence to support this claim before I'll be convinced.

I only post this after about a week of witnessing your unwillingness to even cede the smallest points, for instance, that you have changed the character of the chiffboard

Have I really "changed the character of the chiffboard"? Wow, if this is true, I'm amazed. You seem to be building a case that it is all about me... but I disagree. I reckoned I might have added to a certain aspect, but to have "changed the character" is something I hadn't even considered. I don't know whether to take this as an insult or a compliment.

or to concede that you, too, are human and don't get everything right every time (although you are certainly a better man than I and aren't wrong nearly as often as I am).

Well, Bloomfield... I think I have admitted when I was wrong, actually. It's true that I don't admit I'm wrong when I don't think I'm wrong -- you've got that part right, and I suppose I could be wrong about that, but I think I am... uh...right. What did I just say?

Finally, nearly all your posts here are about debates and controversies. For better or worse, "facts" only go so far to resolve debates and controversies (if you want to know why, try this link), and we are dependent in society on our ability to debate and argue. You debate and argue a lot around here.

Well, my post about session WMDs was going a bit too far I suppose, and my nude photo was extremely controversial as well... even though it was faked. (Actually that thread was started as a gag based on something you said in a discussion) But I don't think I post about debates and controversies exclusively. I do read a lot of articles and think about politics and the world's current and past situation -- but that's me. Should I try to behave like someone else when I come to the C&F Pub? Do you not like to argue your position when you're debating about an issue, Bloomfield? How do you think we should go about discussing current events and controversies? Is the pub a debate-free zone?

Finding now in an area that I feel I have something useful to add (the chiffboard), that you don't listen to criticism (and not just the crude overstated criticism, but also the careful & respectful), that you don't handle subtlety well, that you brow beat those around you, and that everything anyone seems to say is a reflection on you personally (after you were singled out), makes me feel that if you can't debate or argue, perhaps you shouldn't.

Well... when I'm singled out i.e. attacked for either the material I'm presenting, the way I'm presenting it, or comments that start out like; "jGilder, or "Jack, you know I love you but". There have been times when someone has offered something relevant and useful, and I have acknowledged it in those instances, but more often it seems more like a tactic designed to divert from the topic being discussed because they find debating my posting style is far easier.

Actually, Bloomfield, I remember that when I was a newby here I received some very useful information from you on this subject, took criticism, and thanked you for it. Jim Stone, Izzarina and some others offered good advice as well and I thanked all and adjusted my posting style as best I could.

I do appreciate sound advice when given, but if I think it's baseless and diversionary I don't see why I should accept it as valid -- I call it for what it is. When people do attack me personally I defend myself. If there's a flaw in this please enlighten me.

[Montana]

Ah, well, might as well take the plunge.

I will probably be told that I am way off-base. But I'm seeing something here that is similar to what is going on in my town.
We are experiencing a considerable amount of growth. Many new people are moving in because they like the area with the mountains all around but they are also bringing with them (or want to bring with them) the "comforts of home" - in this case, more restaurants, stores... basically consumer-related things that tend to destroy what they came here for in the first place.
The growth is rankling the old-timers. They don't like the additional traffic, the building, and any number of other things that they blame the new people for (and in much of this, I can relate to being a native). They want to save the view but will be damned if they'll allow infill in their neighborhoods. They want the town to stay like it is but the reality is that it will change.
The mayoral primary is approaching and growth issues are top on everyone's list. But no one really has a solution that can please everyone.

I would suggest that what we are seeing here is akin to the explosive growth of a city. Indeed, C&F has seen a lot of growth in the past couple years. So it's not surprising that we are experiencing some of the same things in microcosm. We have the old-timers wanting it to stay the same but by the very nature of growth, indeed of life itself, the board will change. Dale is the mayor of this city and I do not envy him his position. But I have always respected how he has maintained a mostly hands-off approach, allowing the citizens to find their own solutions where they could.

We could make laws about how people should act, just like a city makes regulations. But change will happen and more laws are just stifling. And threatening to pull-out is the same thing as urban flight. The people who are going to leave are going to leave, and the people who stay behind will try to maintain/rebuild a good community.
So flee if you must. But the times, they are a-changin' and you'll find it in more places than just C&F.

[Tyler]

Ah, well, might as well take the plunge.

I will probably be told that I am way off-base. But I'm seeing something here that is similar to what is going on in my town.
We are experiencing a considerable amount of growth. Many new people are moving in because they like the area with the mountains all around but they are also bringing with them (or want to bring with them) the "comforts of home" - in this case, more restaurants, stores... basically consumer-related things that tend to destroy what they came here for in the first place.
The growth is rankling the old-timers. They don't like the additional traffic, the building, and any number of other things that they blame the new people for (and in much of this, I can relate to being a native). They want to save the view but will be damned if they'll allow infill in their neighborhoods. They want the town to stay like it is but the reality is that it will change.
The mayoral primary is approaching and growth issues are top on everyone's list. But no one really has a solution that can please everyone.

I would suggest that what we are seeing here is akin to the explosive growth of a city. Indeed, C&F has seen a lot of growth in the past couple years. So it's not surprising that we are experiencing some of the same things in microcosm. WE have the old-timers wanting it to stay the same but by the very nature of growth, indeed of life itself, the board will change. Dale is the mayor of this city and I do not envy him his position. But I have always respected how he has maintained a mostly hands-off approach, allowing the citizens to find their own solutions where they could.

We could make laws about how people should act, just like a city makes regulations. But change will happen and more laws are just stiffling. And threatening to pull-out is the same thing as urban flight. The people who are going to leave are going to leave, and the people who stay behind will try to maintain/rebuild a good community.
So flee if you must. But the times, they are a-changin' and you'll find it in more places than just C&F.

Looking back, I think that's probably the best thing that's been said on the topic at hand so far.

[Denny]

Ah, well, might as well take the plunge.

I will probably be told that I am way off-base. But I'm seeing something here that is similar to what is going on in my town.
We are experiencing a considerable amount of growth. Many new people are moving in because they like the area with the mountains all around but they are also bringing with them (or want to bring with them) the "comforts of home" - in this case, more restaurants, stores... basically consumer-related things that tend to destroy what they came here for in the first place.
The growth is rankling the old-timers. They don't like the additional traffic, the building, and any number of other things that they blame the new people for (and in much of this, I can relate to being a native). They want to save the view but will be damned if they'll allow infill in their neighborhoods. They want the town to stay like it is but the reality is that it will change.
The mayoral primary is approaching and growth issues are top on everyone's list. But no one really has a solution that can please everyone.

I would suggest that what we are seeing here is akin to the explosive growth of a city. Indeed, C&F has seen a lot of growth in the past couple years. So it's not surprising that we are experiencing some of the same things in microcosm. WE have the old-timers wanting it to stay the same but by the very nature of growth, indeed of life itself, the board will change. Dale is the mayor of this city and I do not envy him his position. But I have always respected how he has maintained a mostly hands-off approach, allowing the citizens to find their own solutions where they could.

We could make laws about how people should act, just like a city makes regulations. But change will happen and more laws are just stiffling. And threatening to pull-out is the same thing as urban flight. The people who are going to leave are going to leave, and the people who stay behind will try to maintain/rebuild a good community.
So flee if you must. But the times, they are a-changin' and you'll find it in more places than just C&F.

Looking back, I think that's probably the best thing that's been said on the topic at hand so far.

Too true

[anniemcu]

Ah, well, might as well take the plunge.

I will probably be told that I am way off-base. But I'm seeing something here that is similar to what is going on in my town.
We are experiencing a considerable amount of growth. Many new people are moving in because they like the area with the mountains all around but they are also bringing with them (or want to bring with them) the "comforts of home" - in this case, more restaurants, stores... basically consumer-related things that tend to destroy what they came here for in the first place.
The growth is rankling the old-timers. They don't like the additional traffic, the building, and any number of other things that they blame the new people for (and in much of this, I can relate to being a native). They want to save the view but will be damned if they'll allow infill in their neighborhoods. They want the town to stay like it is but the reality is that it will change.
The mayoral primary is approaching and growth issues are top on everyone's list. But no one really has a solution that can please everyone.

I would suggest that what we are seeing here is akin to the explosive growth of a city. Indeed, C&F has seen a lot of growth in the past couple years. So it's not surprising that we are experiencing some of the same things in microcosm. We have the old-timers wanting it to stay the same but by the very nature of growth, indeed of life itself, the board will change. Dale is the mayor of this city and I do not envy him his position. But I have always respected how he has maintained a mostly hands-off approach, allowing the citizens to find their own solutions where they could.

We could make laws about how people should act, just like a city makes regulations. But change will happen and more laws are just stifling. And threatening to pull-out is the same thing as urban flight. The people who are going to leave are going to leave, and the people who stay behind will try to maintain/rebuild a good community.
So flee if you must. But the times, they are a-changin' and you'll find it in more places than just C&F.

Exactly! Well said, Montana.

[missy]

But the times, they are a-changin' and you'll find it in more places than just C&F.

AMEN!!!

Ok - I hearby change the name of the postructural pub to Mason, OH - because the exact thing Montana described is happening there! When I grew up there, it was rural beginning to turn bedroom community - it's now suburb elite with $500,000+ homes and people complaining about the "smell" of farms!

[Bloomfield]

jGilder, speaking of medicine.

What I am taking away from this thread and the other MurphyStout started is that you aren't really up to message boards. You are too quick to take things personally, everything is always about you, you can't handle well-meaning criticism, and you keep going on and on about your perceived grievances. Now, I have no business saying this sort of thing, so here are three reasons why I say it anyway:

How am I supposed to take it when I'm called a "troll"? I think you'd take it personally too if you were told you're full of BS and your sources are whackos and the information you're presenting is "crap," and you're telling lies, etc. etc. Maybe you're a saint, but I'm just an average Earthling type. When people do this, if it isn't about me -- who is it about then?

The only things I consider to be about me are the things that are about me. I don't agree with your perception that I turn everything into an issue about me -- you'd have to produce a considerable amount of evidence to support this claim before I'll be convinced.

I won't bother. I find trying to reason with you on this issue futile. But I will give you evidence of why I think it futile; that is, you've given the evidence yourself.

How you should take when you're being called a troll depends on whether you're trolling, of course. First, then, I'd recommending stopping and thinking about that and entertaining the thought that you came across as trolling in that particular instance, and ask yourself why. And when you were called a troll recently, no one told you were full of BS, presenting crap or telling lies. You are conflating those issues to win the argument - which is more important to you than thinking about the point others are trying to make (however imperfectly they express it).

Cases in point:

Finally, nearly all your posts here are about debates and controversies. For better or worse, "facts" only go so far to resolve debates and controversies (if you want to know why, try this link), and we are dependent in society on our ability to debate and argue. You debate and argue a lot around here.

Well, my post about session WMDs was going a bit too far I suppose, and my nude photo was extremely controversial as well... even though it was faked. (Actually that thread was started as a gag based on something you said in a discussion) But I don't think I post about debates and controversies exclusively. I do read a lot of articles and think about politics and the world's current and past situation -- but that's me. Should I try to behave like someone else when I come to the C&F Pub? Do you not like to argue your position when you're debating about an issue, Bloomfield? How do you think we should go about discussing current events and controversies? Is the pub a debate-free zone?

What does your thread on WMDs have to do with debates on controversies? Why do you bring it up here (and why in that "funny" tone)?

Of course you don't post about debates and controversies exclusively. Why do say that?

Why do you ask whether the pub is a debate-free zone? Twelve spoons of sugar for your tea or none at all? Why are you turning everything into an either-or proposition?

The answer to these questions, I submit, is that you are too quick to turn everything that doesn't suit you into propositions that are absurd. What you can't turn into something absurd, you construe as an insult. That's why I find trying to reason with you futile.

What right do I have to call you on this (and I may well be wrong)? None at all. Ignore this at will. I posted it anyway because I am optimistic by nature and perhaps you will stop and consider the kernel of sense in my criticism. Mostly, I admit, I am posting this for the benefit of others who may as well understand what you are playing at.

[jGilder]

I find trying to reason with you on this issue futile.

Gee thanks for trying anyway. :roll:

(If I had said this there are people who would come on and start lecturing me on how rude this is etc. etc... I wonder where they are now.)

How you should take when you're being called a troll depends on whether you're trolling, of course.

You're off point here, Bloomfield. You said I think everything is about me -- I asked how is it not when I'm being called a "troll" etc.

First, then, I'd recommending stopping and thinking about that and entertaining the thought that you came across as trolling in that particular instance, and ask yourself why. And when you were called a troll recently, no one told you were full of BS, presenting crap or telling lies. You are conflating those issues to win the argument - which is more important to you than thinking about the point others are trying to make (however imperfectly they express it).

These were all examples from my experience here in the C&F pub that were intended to illustrate when the discussion has been diverted to be about me. Since you bring it up though, when I was first called a "troll" (I was never called this until I came here BTW) I researched what it was and tried to understand what it meant. I compared that to how it was used against me and found that the term was being misused. In the recent case it was also misused and I pointed it out by referring to Wikipedia. I posted their definition without any narration and the point was obvious and I was clearly absolved.

Cases in point:

Finally, nearly all your posts here are about debates and controversies. For better or worse, "facts" only go so far to resolve debates and controversies (if you want to know why, try this link), and we are dependent in society on our ability to debate and argue. You debate and argue a lot around here.

Well, my post about session WMDs was going a bit too far I suppose, and my nude photo was extremely controversial as well... even though it was faked. (Actually that thread was started as a gag based on something you said in a discussion) But I don't think I post about debates and controversies exclusively. I do read a lot of articles and think about politics and the world's current and past situation -- but that's me. Should I try to behave like someone else when I come to the C&F Pub? Do you not like to argue your position when you're debating about an issue, Bloomfield? How do you think we should go about discussing current events and controversies? Is the pub a debate-free zone?

What does your thread on WMDs have to do with debates on controversies? Why do you bring it up here (and why in that "funny" tone)?

Of course you don't post about debates and controversies exclusively. Why do say that?

Why do you ask whether the pub is a debate-free zone? Twelve spoons of sugar for your tea or none at all? Why are you turning everything into an either-or proposition?

The answer to these questions, I submit, is that you are too quick to turn everything that doesn't suit you into propositions that are absurd. What you can't turn into something absurd, you construe as an insult. That's why I find trying to reason with you futile.

You started that by saying, "Finally, nearly all your posts here are about debates and controversies." I was pointing out that a good amount of my posts are quite playful and have nothing to do with "debates and controversies." I'm beginning to feel that having a reasonable discussion with you about my personal posting style is futile.

What right do I have to call you on this (and I may well be wrong)? None at all. Ignore this at will. I posted it anyway because I am optimistic by nature and perhaps you will stop and consider the kernel of sense in my criticism. Mostly, I admit, I am posting this for the benefit of others who may as well understand what you are playing at.

I'm not really sure what you think I'm "playing at," but I think your assertions in this critique are not entirely founded with facts. You're making gross generalizations about the nature of my posts and then missing my points in your rebuttal. You seem compelled to retaliate for my comment to Murphy that was a taste of his own medicine... I guess.

The bottom line here is that I never claimed to be a flawless poster. I admitted on my arrival that I had no prior experience and I thanked you and others for your constructive criticism and suggestions at that time. I do recognize the difference between that and divertive or unfounded assaults on me personally -- and I will defend myself when necessary.

You indicated in your other post that you think I've changed the character of the C&F messageboard. I don't agree with this, but perhaps you resent me for that. If you think I changed the board I guarantee you that it wasn't my intention or desire. Perhaps we all change the board by our presence -- even you. But you won't find me lecturing you about it or blaming you for the boards woes. As for me, I'm not convinced I have had any profound effect on the deterioration of the board. I have received a lot of positive and supportive feedback, so I know I haven't ruined it for everyone. I do get the feeling sometimes that it's high noon and there are people that would like to run me out of Dodge City for having the audacity to come into town and be myself... different than you that is.

[anniemcu]

By the way I really think that a bunch of you are acting like real morons, and I am fed up, not by the noise, but by the constant mobbing some of us get everytime we state something you don't like. Now, picture of crying babies and all that sh*t directed at Murphy because he started two damn threads about it (some of you started hundreds of useless freaking threads) to me it's damn unacceptable and I had my share of this place, really. If many of you want to act like a bunch of retards because we dear tell you that the sun isnt black, or we think the sun is a giant mushroom, I clearly understand why you want a Pub.

It's always been the same, those of you "promoting peace" and screaming out loud "live and let live" are the worse hypocrite, direspectful and mean-spirited people I've seen and it makes me sick, really.

Right AZ.

You are not exactly doing your argument any good with a post like that. Throwing a screaming tantrum while shouting about the immaturity of others is irony at its best... and... aren't you actually doing exactly what you and Murph are on about?... and... aren't you the very one throwing wads of dung right now?

[Dale]

(Sigh.) Soon, there will be looting on this thread.

[Wanderer]

I think we've all been guilty of a little dung-slinging now and again...We're only human, and we all get worked up now and again.

[anniemcu]

I think we've all been guilty of a little dung-slinging now and again...We're only human, and we all get worked up now and again.

That is true... "We're only human, and we all get worked up now and again."

Dung Slinging is excusable on rare occaisions, when the dungslinger is big enough to accept responsibility and sticks around to help clean up the mess... and resists the urge to repeat the act.

Othwise, it's just sh*t, and it stinks.

[Denny]

(Sigh.) Soon, there will be looting on this thread.

Its already got most everything else...

[Azalin]

By the way, the title of the thread was "Questions for the Moderators". What did I get wrong?