The transition from whistle to flute. How long should it be?

[GaryKelly]

Any tips to "prepare" myself for the new instrument are greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks!

Hammy has an 8 month waiting list, dunno about Sam Murray. You might want to rethink your hardware strategy to take into account the delays that handmade wooden flutes will impose.

At least an off-the-shelf polymer flute will give you something to exercise your embouchure and become accustomed to fluting while you're waiting for a wooden flute to be made for you. Failing that, there are wooden flutes available without a waiting list (Bleazey springs to mind here in the UK and Copeland - just announced in the forum).

[Cayden]

Like a lot of makers Hamilton has flutes coming up for sale: I bought one off him last year on a whim, without waiting. It's basically a flute that was a part trade in i.e. the body came back from a player who upgraded t oa keyed flute. New head piece and new foot added and it comes (a bit) cheaper than a new one (but at the same time as good as a new one).
Hamilton is quoted here often as a flute taking some time to get used to, the first week it surprised me how easy it was to get sounds from it, it took me several months though to get the lower hand notes strong enough to play in tune.
Having played whistle and pipes for a long time(and a bit of flute during the 80s) the fingers weren't really a problem. I hadn't the urge though to subject any session to my playing (a trial run is imminent though).
I played Steampacket's Wilkes during the Willie week and that was VERY easy to play compared to the Hamilton. Quite fancied that actually.

You'd be able to get a Martin Doyle on short notice without a problem, that will work quite nicely for you (I think he's in Bray)

[Flauta dolce]

I know someone who plays a Martin Doyle flute and I'm aware that he lives in Bray (Dublin, Ireland). He plays alright.

I wonder why my teacher suggested I play on a Sam Murray D flute though. Can anyone tell me this?...

So, most hand made flutes have waiting lists....hmmm!

[Cathy Wilde]

His advice was to get a Sam Murray flute (Galway flute maker). Any feedback about flutes that I should buy? I could be wrong but I would have thought a Hammy might be easier to play. I'm not interested in practising on a D Polymer Flutes, definitely not. I'm not interested in buying a practise flute either. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

I could tell your teacher was a wise individual.

IMO, Sam Murray or Doyle. Hamiltons are stiffer in the low notes and take a little while to get to know. Murrays are a joy to play right out of the box.
(it is especially good if your teacher knows Sam)

As far as advice for preparing .... just keep playing your whistle as well as you can!

BTW, Lambie, I thought your statement was hilarious. It is the ones who think they're great right away you have to watch out for .... see the Session Etiquette thread plus any American business consultancy for proof!

(I didn't read fyffer's original response as a slam, FWIW.)

(aren't we opinionated in our old age? )

(speaking of a session-wrecker .... i'll go away now)

[Wormdiet]

I know someone who plays a Martin Doyle flute and I'm aware that he lives in Bray (Dublin, Ireland). He plays alright.

I wonder why my teacher suggested I play on a Sam Murray D flute though. Can anyone tell me this?...

So, most hand made flutes have waiting lists....hmmm!

Well, a Murray flute sounds very good and is easy to play! If you value this measurement, many of the players on the WFO CD's use them.

Speaking of Murrays, a friend of mine has one that's between 8-10 years old. She claims it was acquired for around $400 or so. (Yes, I grew envious at that). Anyway, has Sam changed his flutes tremendously over the years?

[Cathy Wilde]

A new keyless is still only between $700 & $800, I think. That's part of why they're so popular over there -- great, affordable flutes made right in the neighborhood.

I don't know about the changes ... my keyless is about three years old and my keyed is about 8 or 9 and there's not too much difference there .... but each is a super-nice flute in its own right. Different characters, but not wildly so ..... I love the heck out of them, and just they're too much fun to play!

I would suspect Fluta Dolce might even be able to find one secondhand eventually?

Probably worth talking to your teacher about, F.D.!

[tin tin]

How's the keywork on your keyed Murray, Cathy?

[Cathy Wilde]

TinTin,

All but one of mine are rubber-banded right now as I try to gather the funds to make the repairs (this is that boxwood ebay Murray), so I can't tell you too much about their functionality -- the short F key works great, though! Also, I'm still waiting for the long F and Eb keys, so I can't tell you what those look like.

But here's an attempt to describe the long C, Bb, G# and short F ....

The keys seem to be sterling (or perhaps even pewter?; they're tarnished kind of a gunmetal grey so it's hard to tell) and are thus very thin and soft; they're also quite small. Kind of pretty, delicate-looking things, actually; the touches are very petite and even the saltspoons seem small compared to, say, an Olwell. It looks very period. (What period I'm not sure, but there's an antique feel to them. And again, they're -- well, for lack of a better word, really pretty. One of the touches is even sort of scalloped into a nifty shape.)

Compared to the keywork on, say, my McGee, they're much more delicate; I handle them with care. But the McGee is just a big horse of a flute, and has the stout keywork to match. (Terry builds 'em to last -- thank you, Terry!)

I'd love to hear some other input from people who've had experience with some of the antique keyed flutes; I'm kind of thinking Sam followed that lead in making this one. David, do you have any thoughts?

But Lord, it's a nice-playing little flute. Nimble and tight in the turns, and wonderfully in tune, even the keyed notes. Can't tell you much about responsiveness of the keys because of the rubber bands, but again, the short F is great.

[flanum]

[I'm also worried about tendinitus...is it all in my head?]

Flauta Dolce.

If you get tendonitis in your head then there is something wrong

Sorry ciara, only joking. see you soon in cobblestones.

[Wormdiet]

[I'm also worried about tendinitus...is it all in my head?]

Flauta Dolce.

If you get tendonitis in your head then there is something wrong

I'm starting to get tendonitis at the base of the neck from playing while forumizing. . .doing it now in fact. Is that close enough to count?

[Flauta dolce]

I am trying out a Martin Doyle and a Sam Murray flute with a view to buying one of the above later on.

Which one should I go for in the end ?

I would also to know if there is much of a difference in either of them.

Finally, I am blowing a few notes into the flute and so on but the lower three notes are not sounding great. My fourth and fifth digits on my right hand are a bit sore also. Mind you, I have the flute only two days now...

I sound absolutely awful...I'm starting to loose all confidence in myself now

Is it going to take me a long time to get everything right?

I even believe I should have started on the flute first, so as to not waste time in picking up basics things (like learning how to blow into it properly).

Yours frustratingly,

F.D. :roll:

[bradhurley]

I am trying out a Martin Doyle and a Sam Murray flute with a view to buying one of the above later on.

I even believe I should have started on the flute first, so as to not waste time in picking up basics things (like learning how to blow into it properly).

Doyle and Murray are both very good flute makers; I think you'd be happy with either one. If you really want an expert opinion, ask an experienced flute player (like Catherine McEvoy if you're going to see her at the Cobblestone) to try both of them and she what she advises.

But really as long as you get a good flute (and either of these should fall in that category), making it sound good is up to you. The key is to pick one flute and stick with it, because getting to know a flute really involves developing a long-term relationship with that particular instrument. I'm a pretty experienced flute player (coming on 20 years now) and still whenever I get a new flute it takes me about a year before I feel that I know it. I can play it fine right away, but to understand all its little quirks and abilities takes time. I don't think you can ever fully figure out a good flute, just as you can never figure out a person. There are always surprises, that's part of the adventure.

Don't be discouraged after just a few days. Every beginning flute player goes through those moments of despair. The first few months are likely to be a struggle, just take your time, be patient and it will come. If it's too frustrating, set it aside for a while and pick it up later when you're ready to tackle it again.

I disagree that you wasted time by starting on the whistle; see my response to your earlier question...in fact starting on whistle means you're halfway there already, as you know how to move your fingers and you know something about phrasing. But the other half (blowing and breath control) will take time. The flute is not an easy instrument, but if that's the sound you love, stick with it and the results will be well worth it.

[Lambchop]

Finally, I am blowing a few notes into the flute and so on but the lower three notes are not sounding great. My fourth and fifth digits on my right hand are a bit sore also. Mind you, I have the flute only two days now...

I sound absolutely awful...I'm starting to loose all confidence in myself now

Is it going to take me a long time to get everything right?

I even believe I should have started on the flute first, so as to not waste time in picking up basics things (like learning how to blow into it properly).

F.D. :roll:

If you had started on the flute first, you would have been so discouraged that you wouldn't have continued. Do you see how frustrated you are now? Imagine how much worse it would have been if you were also trying to learn tunes and all those other "playing music" things on the flute! How would you ever have gotten round to them? It's impossible when you're still trying to get sound out of your flute.

But, once you know some whistle, you can then work on flute basics while continuing to learn music on the whistle.

I haven't been playing flute all that long . . . only a year . . . so I'll tell you how long it took me. Probably, it will take you less time, because I'm a little slow (= clumsy), but at least you can see that you WILL make progress and that it WILL be worthwhile.

It took a few weeks to get notes out of my flute, and they were awful. I got D, E, and F easily, but could not get the second register at all.

It took three months--seriously, I timed it--to get sound out of my flute when I wanted it most of the time, and it was still awful. It was four months before I could get d, e, and f, and it took me a week in a hotel playing at a whisper to do it.

It took me three more months to be able to play a tune all the way through slowly and to be able to change the tone of the note (rather than the sound being haphazard and out of my control).

It took me nine months to sound good enough that I wasn't paralyzed with fear that somebody would hear me. The tunes are still awful, but the individual sounds are usually pretty good. The second octave didn't come in clearly until nine months, either, and it's not because of the flute (I have three and it was the same on all).

At ten months, I had to take several weeks off. When I came back to the flute, I had lost some of my embouchure, but the entire second octave came in clearly and I am now able to get the first three or four notes (holes 6, 5, 4, and 3) of the third register, but only in isolation.

So, you can see that it takes time. Most people I've talked to relate somewhat the same experience, and I've heard estimates of three years to be able to hold your own reasonably well. Rather than being discouraged by this, see it as a very worthwhile thing that just takes some time.

There is a lot that has to come together to play the flute. As you make progress, you'll SEE your progress. Even little tiny bits of progress will seem huge to you--this is very rewarding.

Please continue! Everything you are feeling is very normal, I think. Don't be discouraged by it.

[Flauta dolce]

Thanks for your advice, Lamb Chop and Brad.

I was quoted 500 Euro by the Martin Doyle and 750 Euro by Sam Murray for a keyless wooden flute. The prices really do vary...I suppose. And the prices are rising, so some flute players are telling me.

I really do appreciate the advice you're giving. I will print it out and share it with my other session colleagues.

I do find that the transition is very hard, and whole process is very new to me.

I do wish I had taken up the wooden flute at the same time as learning the whistle so I could learn new tunes and practise also with my breathing and fingering with the whistle. I did tell my teacher that I wanted to learn the flute on day one and not focus on the whistle.

However, now I am wondering about the pain threshold I have to sustain until my embouchure is good as well as my fingering.

Yours in anticipation,

Flauta Dolce

[Cathy Wilde]

Brad and the Chop have said it all, and wonderfully well. Thanks for sharing your story, LC. And it's true; I still remember my teacher remarking how, after 2ish years of sounding just great on his new Olwell to the rest of the planet, he felt like he was "just getting to know it."

It's a long process. I've been playing for close to 10 years and still don't sound like I want to, gosh darn it. In fact, I'm sort of starting all over yet again with breathing and embouchure. So it never ends ....

You'll have good days and you'll have bad days. For now, your good days will be getting a good sound out of the thing all the way across the scale. In a few months, your good days will be getting a good sound all the way thru a slow jig or something, and getting through fast tunes with a sound, period. In a year your good days will be getting a good sound on anything you want whenever you want.

(But alas, you'll still have not so good days then, too. It's just your "not-so-good" will be better, too!)

So give it time. After all, what's the hurry? You've got 'til the end of August for the All-Irelands.

(said with love)