Uggggh, Oil is up again!

[oscartherabbit]

Oh - and those Smart Cars are just fantastic. They are actually shorter than most cars are wide, and they do a four door and a roadster version too. http://www.smart.com.

I want one.

[Tyler]

Test drove one three weeks ago and loved every minute of it, for the urban enviroment this is the car to have.

MarkB

Those are neat little cars, no doubt about it! I drove one about three months ago...there's only one place in Utah to get them, but even if you can get one it's murder to get it licenced here...
I don't think I'd ever buy one though, because the sticker price is about twice what a ground-up rebuild of one of my Minis is, including lightened forged internals, modern ignition system and replacing of major sheet metal body panels with composite ones. All in all, my current project Mini (for which I just finished the engine for last night! YAY!!) should get almost 56 mpg and weigh about 995 pounds.
Modern cars just aren't worth the expense, in my opinion.
At least in the US, what we need to do is have a closer look at European cars...modern US cars have already started to go towards a more Euro-esque style, but as most Americans know, there are way to many gas guzzzzzzzling trucks and SUVs out there in the hands of people who hardly need them. I mean really, though...In Utah (and a few other states) there is an enourmous proliferation of teeney tiney people who think they need a big truck to feel good. Normaly I would just roll up in my Mini to one of those kids who think they're badasses all up in their truck and shout "50 miles per gallon, and it's paid for!!" as I leave two smoking trails of rubber behind me (that's the greatest part about the simplicity of the Mini! You can have a fuel efficient hot rod one day, and the next you can re-jet your caburettor for extreme economy the next! You can't do that so simply with a modern car!). But nowadays I'm of the opinion that driving an enourmous vehicle without the need to is socially irresponsible. Many people see the light....My old dad even gave up his truck (after a bit o' convincing that he'd be happier in a European car anyways!) for a Volkswagen Golf TDi...(ahh, he makes a son proud , though I did offer to build him a Mini )

[TomB]

It isn't personal. It's economics and global politics. High oil prices will hurt more in countries that have grown used to cheap and plentiful domestic oil supplies, that's true, but they are still inevitable and, in the long run, part of the progress towards something better.

I get what you are saying, and I agree, in the most part. Yes, high oil prices are here to stay and will worsen, but because of it people's situations have gotten worse so it affects them personally. That's my point, and I think Red's. I can't speak for her, but your earlier post seemed to be saying- "tough luck, deal with it." You clearly did not say that, and you probably did not mean it in that way, but I'm guessing that is how she took it, so she was responding to that. If I'm wrong, then I apologize to both you and Red, (for assuming what she is saying).

Again, I do not dispute the fact that oil is going to get worse and that things are going to change.

All the Best, Tom

[OnTheMoor]

Yeah, Mark, I don't get that. I doubt the Saudi's are paying world prices for their oil, but then I could be wrong. Is it true that the major oil supplier to the U.S. is Canada? Doesn't it seem like we could strike some kind of deal that would benefit everyone? I mean, hurricanes don't really affect transporting oil from Canada to the U.S.!

Robin

Federal government is probably more than a little cautious about making deals about Alberta oil, and rightfully so. But I think the problem is in refining capacity, not supply.

Surely you are joking. They are indeed putting nuclear waste in our backyard. The trouble is, that you are not considering the immensity of the yard, and the enormity of the risk. Anyplace on the planet, or, arguably in the solar system, or even the universe, is not far enough away, and no ammount of cladding, burying, shielding, etc. is enough. It builds up far,far faster than it breaks down, and that, in case you hadn't considered, presents a serious storage problem as well. When you are making something faster than you can dispose of it, you've got problems... when that something you are making and having paroblems disposing of is stupendously toxic, far-reaching, and long-lived, you are not just asking for, but postively guaranteeing trouble. Trouble that no-one, now or 500 years from now, can afford.

As I said to fiddler, carefully managed nuclear waste is no different than an abandoned coal mine, a garbage dump, a refinery... any number of things (actually it is different, becuase there is not environmental damage when it is stored properly). The only difference is you have images of mushroom clouds in your brain. If space is the issue, I'd argue nuclear fuel storage facilities are far less intrusive than hydro dams or fields and fields of wind turbines.

[fiddleronvermouth]

It isn't personal. It's economics and global politics. High oil prices will hurt more in countries that have grown used to cheap and plentiful domestic oil supplies, that's true, but they are still inevitable and, in the long run, part of the progress towards something better.

I get what you are saying, and I agree, in the most part. Yes, high oil prices are here to stay and will worsen, but because of it people's situations have gotten worse so it affects them personally. That's my point, and I think Red's. I can't speak for her, but your earlier post seemed to be saying- "tough luck, deal with it." You clearly did not say that, and you probably did not mean it in that way, but I'm guessing that is how she took it, so she was responding to that. If I'm wrong, then I apologize to both you and Red, (for assuming what she is saying).

Again, I do not dispute the fact that oil is going to get worse and that things are going to change.

All the Best, Tom

I think it was more like "Come on, chin up, things might suck for you and your family, but you'll feel better if you try to think about how great things are for me and my family instead, and how there's a slim chance that 80 or 90 years from now when you're rotting in the ground, we may actually see a DECREASE in global emissions!"

[jbarter]

Can Soylent Green be used as fuel?

[TomB]

Can Soylent Green be used as fuel?

I think just used as lunch.

[Flyingcursor]

Sadly the Smart USA site is junk. No information on how to find one of those babies.

I'd rather go Tyler's route and rebuild Mini's but that would mean finding old mini's to rebuild, then the parts etc etc.

[oscartherabbit]

I think it was more like "Come on, chin up, things might suck for you and your family, but you'll feel better if you try to think about how great things are for me and my family instead, and how there's a slim chance that 80 or 90 years from now when you're rotting in the ground, we may actually see a DECREASE in global emissions!"

Well to be honest I think I'd be lying if I tried to pretend there wasn't an element of that in what I said, although I do think you overstated it rather unfairly. In 98/99, when Brent crude was ~$15/bbl and my friends and colleagues were being laid off, I don't remember there being a great wailing and wringing of hands about how awful it all was. What I do remember was getting an email from Dick Cheney (then Halliburton CEO) explaining that I wasn't going to get a pay rise but if we all pulled together I might keep my job.

But more importantly I wanted to point out that a high oil prices is not such relentlessly bad news. You'll notice, if you look carefully, that I was actually arguing that energy efficiency and a reduction in dependency on oil is a good thing - something that is somewhat at odds my long term employment prospects!

FWIW - I think your estimate of the timescale for reducing emissions is a little pessimistic, and that in fact it should happen in the next 20 or 30. The key thing here would be getting the US Government to accept the link between fossil fuels and global warming and then come on board with the efforts to deal with the problem.

[fiddleronvermouth]

Well to be honest I think I'd be lying if I tried to pretend there wasn't an element of that in what I said, although I do think you overstated it rather unfairly.

Yes, I am a chronic overstater. That's why my eyes are so bad and there's hair on my palms.

In 98/99, when Brent crude was ~$15/bbl and my friends and colleagues were being laid off, I don't remember there being a great wailing and wringing of hands about how awful it all was.

Well, no, but that's generally the case when the vast majority of the population is benefitting from a situation that is only detrimental to a tiny wee little group of fairly well-to-do people. Also the vast majority of the population just goes out and finds another job when they lose theirs, therefore is not likely to see your own slightly wobbly job security as a major trajedy.

But more importantly I wanted to point out that a high oil prices is not such relentlessly bad news. You'll notice, if you look carefully, that I was actually arguing that energy efficiency and a reduction in dependency on oil is a good thing - something that is somewhat at odds my long term employment prospects!

You're right, I pointed out the same thing a few pages back and I agree with you, but not to the point of telling families who are really struggling to get by to perk up and think positive. I think it would be more productive if those families got angry and started hollering at your government to stop prioritizing unlimited profit for companies like the one you work for over the basic daily needs of the majority. Thinking positive and trusting their elected representatives to actually represent them in government is the reason they are currently watching their jobs be exported to China, Mexico, Canada and India while they can't afford to drive their kids to school.

You go ahead and think positive, but I think you should let other people take it personally. When democratically elected officials blatantly and shamelessly exploit and ignore the population that brought them to power, it IS personal. It's a major slap in the face, I'd say.

[Tyler]

I'd rather go Tyler's route and rebuild Mini's but that would mean finding old mini's to rebuild, then the parts etc etc.

http://www.miniguy.com
http://www.minimania.com
http://www.miniworld.co.uk
http://www.minispares.co.uk
http://www.ministables.com
It's easier than it looks! Happy Hunting!!!

[oscartherabbit]

I think it would be more productive if those families got angry and started hollering at your government to stop prioritizing unlimited profit for companies like the one you work for over the basic daily needs of the majority.

Just a small point. I am not American, and it's not my government. I am English and I live in Scotland. I left Halliburton in '99 (ish I think), although I still work for an oilfield service company (a veeeeery small one - tiny - positively bijoux, in fact).

I'm going to tell my wife that we a "fairly well-to-do" when I get home. She's going to be so relieved to hear that.

[oscartherabbit]

Hey Tyler - I get 55mpg out of my vehicle too, and (apparently) somewhere around 170mph. Not at the same time though, obviously.

[missy]

Hey Tyler - I get 55mpg out of my vehicle too, and (apparently) somewhere around 170mph. Not at the same time though, obviously.

Hey Oscar - I don't know about the UK, but in the States, we call those "crotch rockets".
My son is the proud (?) owner of a 1977 Suzuki 275, 2 cycle that we affectionately (?) call the "wing-dingy-dingy", cuz that's what it sounds like.

[oscartherabbit]

Hey Oscar - I don't know about the UK, but in the States, we call those "crotch rockets".
My son is the proud (?) owner of a 1977 Suzuki 275, 2 cycle that we affectionately (?) call the "wing-dingy-dingy", cuz that's what it sounds like.

We tend to call them "motorbikes".

At 1100cc, mine's a touch bigger than your son's. It's also not a 2-stroke, so the "wasp-in-a-tin-can" exhaust note and clouds of blue smoke are replaced by a positively leonine roar.